So Lori and Ben, how would you talk about the difference between personality and culture and how, and when, when we're thinking about this and trying to think about building things intentionally, how you make sure you don't confuse them?

First, I would say, really, I was impressed with what Hannah said, and I would describe what she said as truly a success story.

And, and talking about the growth she's experienced and the success she's experienced, I would say that's probably directly attributable to the things that she just described.

And it's, it's interesting, you know, if, if you make it accidental, it could end well or it could not end well, but I think that...

Well, she described some things that are intentional.

But the wrong person doing it accidentally could really destroy your firm.

And then, uh, I think some of the things that she described, um, you know, maybe some of the fun things, that could be part of the personality.

We looked at our SOPs and said, "Are operating procedures pulling something from the core values out? Are our performance reviews consistent with doing the core values? Is that what we're holding as the standard? And if they're not, maybe we don't have the right core values yet." And so just iterating on that to get to the right standards is how we've done it.

If your competitive compensation is not quite competitive, a small firm, find things that you can put in there, fast track for advancement, even things like if you have a piece of your benefits package that's maybe aggressive or better, PTO, whatever you gotta do

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

There are a lot of law firms out there.

I think it's important to distinguish yourself, what is special about your law firm, whether it be the history or the culture, the way that you communicate with each other.

It could be that you're, you have a billable hour target that's different or a way that you look at performance of your attorneys.

All those things are important, and to the extent that you can explain that in a way that is appealing to your candidates, that's something that could really make a difference with your job description when you, when other candidates see it.

Also, in terms of, uh, attracting associates, which is very difficult to do right now because of the competitiveness in the market, associates care a lot about their compensation.

You know, it hurts the firm in a lot of ways, not just financially.

Is there anything that we should be thinking about in how artificial intelligence, how agentic AI in particular is affecting these decisions regarding staffing?

It's so incredible.

You know, a couple of months ago, I was in New York at Legal Week, and it was incredible how almost every single company there had some AI component.

And I imagine for these firms it could just seem so overwhelming and so mind-boggling, and so I, I know that's something that all these firms are grappling with.

And now the, the fir- firms are hearing from their clients that there's an expectation that they use AI, and they wanna understand how their lawyers are using AI.

I remember just a year or so ago when I was implementing an AI solution in a firm, that firm was very nervous about using AI because they thought that the client, uh, might be disappointed or concerned, uh, that they were using it.

And now we're at a point where it's an expectation.

Is that kind of where you're coming from?