And so it's very impressive h- and very inspiring, let's say, to see that you just went for it and it worked.

Well, I think, I think, well, you know, I've, I've thought about this quite a bit and I, of course, I knew I was gonna be on with you guys, so I w- I wanted to, you know, kind of ...

I'm always thinking stuff in my head about, uh, you, you know, how, how do you verbalize about what it is you do? And I, and I, that- that's what's nice about us getting together because you can ...

I think, I think all artists need to sit down and at least talk to themselves, if not to s- another artist, to kind of walk through what it is they do.

But one of the things I think that, that, uh, makes my pastel so fresh and free is that I don't know what I'm doing.

I mean, I don't, I haven't had years and years and years of it, and, uh, so I've, I h- and I haven't gotten past that point where I think Uh, if, if it fa-- if it, if it, if it doesn't work, uh, it's not a big deal.

Uh, you're 20 minutes in, it's either great or it's not, and if it's not, I throw it away and I get another piece of paper and I go on to the next one.

Mm-hmm