But otherwise, if you're missing one leg of that stool, it just doesn't work.

Yeah, I think that's pretty darn accurate because so many founders are just single individuals who are splitting their time between those three roles.

I know I was doing marketing for Garage Grown very involved up until about two years ago.

And that's like six years of me sending every newsletter, scheduling everything to social media.

And it's like, I'm good at marketing, but it's not...

I'm not, like, I'm intuitive at it, but I'm not brilliant at it, no.

But you are kind of forced to be a generalist, to have a whole bunch of skills, but it means, and we see this a lot in this space, is that good founders are able to hand off responsibilities to others that are better than them.

And on we go.

you a couple

hundred bucks.

More than that.

It's not going to be that much cheaper.

More than that.

Yeah.

So like it's not like it's it's not like I think there was this kind of this mythology, particularly within the last like, you know, five to ten years ago, that Ultralight was this really expensive endeavor.

Are there any trends that you're seeing fading this year?

[laughs] Damn it, Lloyd

... make you happy, don't do it.

But there are finite definitions for what ultralight is.

Ultralight means a base weight of 10 pounds or less.

So base weight is basically everything that's in your pack minus your, your consumables, so your food and your fuel.

And so if that is less than 10 pounds, technically your pack would then be ultralight.

And it is easier to go ultralight these days because there's just a ton of fabric innovation.

[laughs]