So, Lisa, building on that, could you explain the connection between the Alberta independence movement and populism, particularly by unpacking some particularly Canadian elements of populism?

Sure.

Thanks so much.

And I'm so pleased to be able to join you today.

And I'm so sorry I can't be there in person.

I had other commitments that got in the way.

So when I think about this movement that Rob has just described, I think about it predominantly as being a populist movement.

Everyone's keeping on time, thankfully.

What is the political calculation of the UCP in Alberta then around these questions, do you think?

Well, I think that what the Smith government has heard from its party base is that there is resentment of immigration, that there is a sense that there was an uptick in the number of temporary foreign workers and other immigrants coming into the province that were associated in some ways with the Trudeau government, which was not popular.

And it's also a way that the province, I think, has been trying to divert attention from discontent about some of those core social services.

Last year, we had a teacher strike that was a function of large classroom sizes and great complexity in the classroom.

And public opinion really started to mobilize behind the teachers.

And what the Smith government has said in response to this is, oh, we're struggling in the education system because there are all of these children of immigrants in classrooms.

So, you know, this is some of the politics that lies behind these questions.

What is your sense of what some Alberta conservatives want to get out of this, want from this referendum? I mean, is the sense that they want to get legitimacy for policies that might exclude some groups of newcomers from these services?

So how did you get to the point of feeling comfortable with putting yourself out there on LinkedIn?

Yeah, it was a real journey, I'll be honest.

I started, as I said, I started as a consultancy.

My consultancy was called Exceed HR.

My LinkedIn page was Exceed HR.

Not one place would have a photo of me.

Did it say my name was Lisa? I was the royal we.

It's almost like it's a grateful that we're being

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So, uh, you know, I read that, and I thought about it, and I thought, "No.

No, I, not in my bubble." And then I thought, "No, wait, hang on a second.

Barry Cooper has the office just six doors down from me." [laughs] So even I, you know, um, you know, all joking aside, but I think it's, it's true.

And, um, y- you know, we live in different versions of bubbles and, and so on, but I think for a lot of people, you know, this is, it- it's hard to avoid.

Um, and, and it's, it's not just something that you can kind of brush off.

You can hear the murmurings about that already everywhere.

you, Lisa.

Yeah, I know.

It wasn't that a great play.

So this is either going to be fantastic or a complete catastrophe.

I'll let you know.

Bring me back in December.

But, you know, in the classroom, there has to be room for, you know, all kinds of views, right? It's got to be a space where we can engage with each other.

Lisa, why don't we end where we started talking about your what now? Do you have any plans to ramp up the issues on your newsletter as we get closer to referendum day?

Um, and so how do you really make that more of a cohesive culture?

So from the-- So Maricopa C- the-- As an example for the Maricopa Community Colleges, they are a system of, um, 10 separately accredited community colleges.

But we have a district office.

And so one of the things we started out with was, um...

And Paul Golisch, who was critical in this early work of the Maricopa Millions project.

Um, but Paul and I, we wanted to ensure-- And Dr. Maria Harper-Marinick, who was the, um, provost at the time.

Um, we wanted to ensure that we had representation from all 10 colleges, um, that we had representation from a number of stakeholders, and we put together a steering committee.

Tell me a little bit about how you got into that and where you see open evolving within the, the context of microlearning.

From your perspective, what are the ramifications of this if, if all this information is made, uh, uh, made public?

Well, uh, uh, certainly when we think about the personal ramifications for people whose names were on the list, um, we have to assume that it is out there on the internet, uh, you know, in, in various places, that there are all sorts of nefarious actors who scrape things that are available.

And so people with legitimate privacy concerns, um, l- as Jason just mentioned, are certainly concerned about this.

What purposes will this be put to? And then of course, you know, we live in an age where we all have to be concerned about, uh, our, our personal information, uh, going missing and being combined with other things and, and there can be fraud and so on.

Lisa, where does this leave the Premier Danielle Smith? What sort of pressure is she under to call a referendum regardless of, of how things unfold?

Well, I, I think that, uh, you know, the, the organizers of the separatist movement expect her to ensure that there will be a, a referendum question on the ballot next October, and up to this point, um, she has claimed to be a federalist.

She says that, you know, that's, that's her personal view on this, but she has in her actions done more or less everything that she could to ensure that this question will be on the ballot, and that's because this group is an important constituency inside the United Conservative Party.

But these aren't normal times, she says.

We have an administration that is... invested in weakening Canada, it seems, and that sees Alberta as potentially an object for expansion.

And so I think there's a lot of room for potential mischief here that really do raise the stakes of this referendum.

While there have been lineups at some petition signing events, Young stresses support for Alberta staying in Canada far outweighs support for separatism.

If we look at public opinion data, what it shows us is that somewhere between 20% to, at the very highest, 30% of people answering a survey in Alberta will respond that yes, they think that Alberta would be better off if it was separate from the rest of Canada.