And when my agent said, what's your next book going to be after What to Eat Now, which came out last year, I said, I think it's time to do something with the cereal boxes.

What about you, Lisa? Well, I mean, and, you know, as I always like to say, like you, I mean, well, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I grew up eating cereal as a kid from, you know, the 70s.

Like I we had it in our house, you know, and when I went to work at Kellogg's, obviously, you know, I always say, you know, I learned the cereal business from probably the best cereal company in the world.

I will tell today our story between Marion and I and kind of how we got to this point.

You know, I've known Marion for over 20 years now, and I first met her when I was working on a project for a grocery store, Hannaford's or Food Lion in North Carolina, as it is, on a project with them.

So I met Marion.

And a few years later, we'd lost touch and we'd had touch off and on.

How do we get from that to the way boxes look today?

[laughs]

And so long story short, about six months later, Marion flew to Battle Creek, and she really had wanted to go into the library files.

And so when she arrived, I said to her, "Well, we've got some good news, and we've got some bad news for you.

Kinda, which do you want first?" And M- Marion said, "I'll take the bad news." And I said, "Well, the lawyers aren't gonna let you go into the archives and the files and the library." And she said, "Well, then what's your good news?" And I said, "Here you are." And we, and, and Marion had told us which cereal she was interested in, so we gave her three complete sets of every cereal box front and back, whether or not they'd ever gone into production, of, um, All-Bran from 1919, Rice Krispies from 1928, and Froot Loops from 1963 to the year of 2010 when she came to visit.

And what was cool was, as we were sitting kind of flipping through the boxes with the other kind of, a- another, a- another SVP of nutrition and some other nutritionists on my team, we could see flipping through them, oh, that's when that got labeled on the label, or that's when the 1990 Labeling, you know, Act went into effect, or that's when something got changed, or that's when we got sued by so-and-so, or that's when this company sent us a really nasty letter on something.

We could kind of see this history of food policy unfold through the cereal boxes over time, and we knew there was a book in 2010.

We could see there was a book.

How do we get from that to the way boxes look today?

And when my agent said, what's your next book going to be after What to Eat Now, which came out last year, I said, I think it's time to do something with the cereal boxes.

What about you, Lisa? Well, I mean, and, you know, as I always like to say, like you, I mean, well, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I grew up eating cereal as a kid from, you know, the 70s.

Like I we had it in our house, you know, and when I went to work at Kellogg's, obviously, you know, I always say, you know, I learned the cereal business from probably the best cereal company in the world.

I will tell today our story between Marion and I and kind of how we got to this point.

You know, I've known Marianne for over 20 years now, and I first met her when I was working on a project for a grocery store, Hannaford's or Food Lion in North Carolina, as it is, on a project with them.

So I met Marianne.

And a few years later, we'd lost touch and we'd had touch off and on.

How do we get from that to the way boxes look today?

And when my agent said, what's your next book going to be after What to Eat Now, which came out last year, I said, I think it's time to do something with the cereal boxes.

What about you, Lisa? Well, I mean, and, you know, as I always like to say, like you, I mean, well, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I grew up eating cereal as a kid from, you know, the 70s.

Like I we had it in our house, you know, and when I went to work at Kellogg's, obviously, you know, I always say, you know, I learned the cereal business from probably the best cereal company in the world.

I will tell today our story between Marion and I and kind of how we got to this point.

You know, I've known Marion for over 20 years now, and I first met her when I was working on a project for a grocery store, Hannaford's or Food Lion in North Carolina, as it is, on a project with them.

So I met Marion there.

And a few years later, we had lost touch and we had touched off and on.

How do we get from that to the way boxes

And when my agent said, what's your next book going to be after What to Eat Now, which came out last year, I said, I think it's time to do something with the cereal boxes.

What about you, Lisa? Well, I mean, and, you know, as I always like to say, like you, I mean, well, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I grew up eating cereal as a kid from, you know, the 70s.

Like I we had it in our house, you know, and when I went to work at Kellogg's, obviously, you know, I always say, you know, I learned the cereal business from probably the best cereal company in the world.

I will tell today our story between Marion and I and kind of how we got to this point.

You know, I've known Marion for over 20 years now, and I first met her when I was working on a project for a grocery store, Hannaford's or Food Lion in North Carolina, as it is, on a project with them.

So I met Marion.

And a few years later, we'd lost touch and we had touched off and on.

How do we get from that to the way boxes look

And when my agent said, what's your next book going to be after What to Eat Now, which came out last year, I said, I think it's time to do something with the cereal boxes.

What about you, Lisa? Well, I mean, and, you know, as I always like to say, like you, I mean, well, I'm older than you, but I, you know, I grew up eating cereal as a kid from, you know, the 70s.

Like I, we had it in our house and, you know, and when I went to work at Kellogg's, obviously, you know, I always say, you know, I learned the cereal business from probably the best cereal company in the world.

I will tell today our story between Marion and I and kind of how we got to this point.

You know, I've known Marion for over 20 years now, and I first met her when I was working on a project for a grocery store, Hannaford's or Food Lion in North Carolina, as it is, on a project with them.

So I met Marion.

And a few years later, we lost touch and we had touched off and on.

How do we get from that to the

And Lisa, how have requirements changed over time for food labeling, and how does that impact the industry?

Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing that the f- food industry actually has the power to do and has shown that they can do, and food labeling is a great example of it actually, it is because they don't want government regulation on what they're doing, they don't want the government to mandate, right, that they have to remove the colors.

You know, both Kellogg and General Mills have said, "By the end of '27, we'll be out of all colors." They don't want that to be mandated, right? So they wanna show that they can get out ahead of that.

I think partially hydrogenated oils, trans fats, was another really good example of that, where the food industry, they had that out of their food supplies because the labeling regulations were changing, right? They don't want that, you know, different things on the label.

So they're able to often get out ahead of regulation because they don't wanna be regulated.

You know, we've watched cereal ex- In many different occasions, changed the entire food industry with what they're doing.

They have the power to do that.

So what is that relationship, and how does that impact consumer behavior?

So what's going on with cereal? Why this book, and what can we do about it?

That's a loaded question.

Big one, three parts.

So why the book? I'll just, you know, the quick story.

Marion and I have known each other for almost two decades now.

I, as you know, I was working as the vice president of nutrition at Kellogg Company.

Marion had a fascination with getting into their library and their archives.

Well, now, Lisa, when you got into Kellogg, did you think you were gonna go in there and make changes and tell everybody what's going on and what they need to do and-