But continuing this, Lisa, can you describe what you mean when you said to me a humane community? What does that look like?

Sure.

When I think about a humane community, I think about the things outside the shelter door, but I do want to say that an open admission shelter is very much part of a humane community for me.

I think that we learned decades ago with humans that when parents were no longer able to care for their children, if they were able to give them up legally easily, I'm not going to say easily, but if they're able to give them up in a timely and non-barrier laden way that the outcomes were much better for the children.

And so I do think that having an open admission shelter is a part of that humane community, but it's not the only part of the humane community.

I think when we're thinking about how good is our shelter, I think that that's myopic and you need to look beyond the shelter doors to what's going on outside of the door.

So what sort of support systems are there for people who are at least decent pet owners who would like to keep their animal? And then what are the options when somebody has an animal or more animals than they can care for and they need a place for them to go? And so in the human world, we talk about wraparound social services.

What do they do? How do they start? I