... as well?

Mm.

Yeah.

And actually, um, like, I've very much developed this kind of, um, I guess, what would you call it? Well, like, trust your voice or, or find your voice.

Like, these workshops that I have developed in the last decade.

Because voice wasn't something when I did the master's that was really spoken about, and it's something that I feel is, is so important that, that you, you have permission, you know, to be as wild and as messy as you say, and as raw and unfiltered, um, on the page, and that's where the, I think, the power often comes from, being brave and fearless.

Uh, it was very much, a lot of the master's was kind of about technique, and I felt that was missing the first step.

Um, so was that something that you were very aware of, to try and project where this, where is this character going, and also what has made this character who she is, and how, how then do I structure this?

The story of my life, being kinda right.

Yeah.

[chuckles] You have it kinda right.

Um, I think, I think just 'cause, like, today I think I'll talk about things, like, I don't think I've spoken about.

So I gave, funny, in all of this trajectory, I actually gave the commencement for graduation.

I actually gave Grand Rounds in twenty twenty-four for the department, and so some of the story came out there because I think a lot of people didn't know up until then that I had tried to get into Yale twice before then, and then I...

Yeah, and I didn't get in.

So what, now that you've expanded the whole concept, what, what is the full menu of what gets done?

Just judging the cover is going to be a far more serious...

It is.

Far more serious read.

And it's interesting you say about the cover.

You know, he wrote Cal and he wrote Lamb.

And...

Then he takes his time between books, Bernard.

Yeah.