Or did you experience any warfare with this book? Yeah, I remember writing the first chapter and

like breaking down.

Really? One, because I was I had to figure out within me why I had put this person in this position in my life.

What was the hold? Like, what was I trying to feel? And I realized it was my hero's affirmation about my call that was really significant.

So because I'm an apologist, apologetics, it's way more diverse now.

But when I first started, it was old white men, right? And so I'm always in rooms, right? with old white men.

I'm sometimes the only, a lot of times the only black person, a lot of times the only woman.

But she didn't, you know what I'm saying? How important is it to keep honest people around you? I think it's critical.

Mm.

Whether they grew, they grew up in a word of faith background or a more reformed background, the disappointment of what they thought that the faith was gonna bring them versus what they actually were experiencing was one of the reasons they were exiting.

And they were, while they had some church hurt or different things, the core issue was they were mad at God.

And so I was like, "I wanna write a book addressing them," because they're angry at God, and they don't know how to wrestle with God.

Mm

... of the world.

And so I don't, I never questioned or I never was technically wrestling with something that deep where I had to, like, wrestle with a question.

My dad always told us, 'cause my father's a pastor, like, "Talk to God how you talk to me." So that was always kind of my framework of talking to God.

Yeah.

He had no margin.

Always on the road, always preaching.

And then I think at a certain point, I remember one of the last times I was at his offices and he got up, and he was like ...

He had preached all day in this other country, and somebody, um ...

He was, he was like, "I just need a moment to eat I just need a moment.

And so he was, uh, took a moment to eat, and he- some guy walked by him and recognized him.

That's so good.