Yes, and I was working with Mallory

McMurray.

But he cast his lot with her because he knew that she could raise a lot of money.

He knew that there were big corporate donors, APAC, that would come riding in with tens of millions of dollars, and they sure did, $80 million in that primary.

But that is an ass-backwards way to pick a nominee.

We should not say, you are qualified to be the nominee because of how much money you can raise.

That's why we founded the group The Bench, because the first question should be, how much can you build a coalition? How much can you inspire people? And there's an important thing.

They thought they were able to vote.

And I wonder how you think about how your party may interpret what what happens if there is a big victory for Democrats there.

So there are definitely going to be people who are doing what you're talking about, Dasha.

Think about it this way.

After 2022, right, when we had that sort of really big outside factor of Roe v.

Wade getting overturned, Democrats then thought, hey, guess what? We overperformed in the midterm.

Everything's okay.

Why don't we run Joe Biden again while we're at it? And why don't we just say everything is great? Concerns about inflation? It doesn't matter.

What kind of candidates do you think voters will be looking for in 2028? Who do you think will have the kind of success necessary to really do this thing?

And I wonder how you think about how your party may interpret what what happens if there is a big victory for Democrats there.

So there are definitely going to be people who are doing what you're talking about, Dasha.

Think about it this way.

After 2022, right, when we had that sort of really big outside factor of Roe v.

Wade getting overturned, Democrats then thought, hey, guess what? We overperformed in the midterm.

Everything's okay.

Why don't we run Joe Biden again while we're at it? And why don't we just say everything is great? Concerns about inflation? It doesn't matter.

What kind of candidates do you think voters will be looking for in 2028? Who do you think will have the kind of success necessary to really do this thing?

And I wonder how you think about how your party may interpret what happens if there is a big victory for Democrats.

So...

There are definitely going to be people who are doing what you're talking about, Dasha.

Think about it this way.

After 2022, right, when we had that sort of really big outside factor of Roe v.

Wade getting overturned, Democrats then thought, hey, guess what? We overperformed in the midterm.

Everything's OK.

What kind of candidates do you think voters will be looking for in 2028? Who do you think will have the kind of success necessary to really do this thing?

So it's kind of incomprehensible.

yeah it's sort of what he does right where he doesn't want to defend the sort of indefensible but then he sort of goes and and does in a different way and let me just say that it made my blood boil watching that clip again because this is a guy who goes out and whines and plays the victim anytime anyone brings up his personal life, anytime anyone brings up his marriage.

And do I think that Democrats should go around talking about other people's marriages or other people's kids if it has really nothing to do with politics? No, I don't.

Like, if your kids are profiting off of your office, fair game.

But that's not what the criticisms of...

J.D. Vance's family and kids are about.

But he goes out and whines and complains about this all the time and says it's so out of bounds.

like the Abramoff saga.

[laughs] I know you have worked with Kate, um, and you have a lot of thoughts on this, but what can you tell our audience about Kate and what do, and how this ad works?

So this ad is absolutely brilliant.

Kate Connolly has one of those bios that is just incredible.

She is total outsider, a badass.

She does not look or feel like a normal politician.

And why that bio is so important and so powerful in this district is, um, you know- She grew up in the Hudson Valley, just right outside of New York City, and the day after 9/11, you know, when the towers fell, she decided, "I'm gonna go serve my country," applied to West Point.

You know, goes to West Point, does six tours overseas, places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, literally hunting terrorists in special operations.

Yeah.

What's the lesson from that?

I think what it tells us is a, less maybe about the ideology and more about the mood of where Democrats are.

You know, after the 2024 election, Democrats are pretty angry at the establishment.

They're pretty angry about what happened with Joe Biden, and they're really angry that we lost to Donald Trump a second time, and they want something different.

And that was what Abdul El-Sayed was offering in this race.

And as much as we can talk about it as a victory for El-Sayed, I think we need to look at it as a massive loss for the establishment that, as you said, went in with over $65 million in spending on Haley Stevens' behalf, tried to winnow the field for her, and picked her out because she had the traditional political biography, had been in Congress for a long time, could raise a lot of corporate cash, had all the right insider connections.

20 years ago, that type of candidate may, may well have won this primary.

How much of his victory reflects Democratic views on the war in Gaza and US support for Israel?

What's the lesson from that? I

think what it tells us is less maybe about the ideology and more about the mood of where Democrats are.

You know, after the 2024 election, Democrats are pretty angry at the establishment.

They're pretty angry about what happened with Joe Biden.

And they're really angry that we lost to Donald Trump a second time.

And they want something different.

And That was what Abdul El-Sayed was offering in this race.

How much of his victory reflects Democratic views on the war in Gaza and U.S. support for Israel?

Do you think that that, A, is true in her case? And B, did Mallory experience that? I mean, I asked you to speak for her, but did you see that in the ways that Mallory was treated by her opponents and was covered when she was in the race?

Yeah.

Yes, and thank you.

I do want to clarify that my horrible opinions are mine, mine alone.

I do not speak for anyone else, including Mallory McMurrow, when I'm talking about the Michigan Senate race, or any race for that matter.

Of course.

So I think two things can be true at once.

Those are not alleged, those are real.

Uh, I don't know if any of those assumptions are actually true, uh, but talk to me a little bit about that race.

Yeah, so, um, I think you s- you summarized a lot of that well.

A couple other things I would throw in there is that, uh, Stevens has the support of AIPAC, has the support of the DSCC, and to date has had $16 million put on TV behind her.

Right now there are, I think starting about two, three weeks ago, uh, outside groups started running ads on Mallory's behalf supporting her.

And so, I think the question is, what do things look like at the end of this month after the, the ads start to burn in? And this week, um, her campaign went up with an ad sort of positioning her as the fighter.

And there's six weeks to go.

I really do not think that people have been, um, super tuned into this race.

My question for you is, is it worth it for me to write postcards to swing voters? With elections coming up, I get lots of appeals to send out postcards to swing voters, and I'm wondering, is this worth my time? Thanks so much.

Yeah.

Right? With nationalizing the election, all these various voter ID provisions, ICE at the polls, and, you know, it's unclear whether they're saying it 'cause they're actually gonna do it, or they wanna do it just to sow fear and confusion and stop people from, um, showing up to the polls.

And, look, I think Democrats have gotta use this as a moment to really motivate and, and get people out and say that, like, yes, we can go out and say, "This is horrible, this is, you know, un-American," all that, but really the best way to counter all this is if everyone turns out, and we, uh, have such a high Democratic turnout that none of the stuff that they're trying to do, whether it's around the margins or larger, matters.

[laughing]

But taking a step back and looking at it, I mean, that, that primary also has gotten quite ugly.

But, you know, there are two different arguments, right? One is Jasmine Crockett is saying, "I don't...

We don't need to chase Trump voters.

We don't need to chase swing voters.

I want my T-shirt.

... at 3:00 AM as ...

And, you know, I, I think we can tell everyone, uh, when my son was born, you sent him over a, just a big package of, you know, newborn baby Bengals merch.

That's how big fans we are.

But back to the central point here, yes, most 26, 27-year-old quarterbacks in the league are gonna be better than your for- uh, your average 40, 41-year-old, but not every 40, 41-year-old quarterback is created equal.

And the same applies to members of Congress, elected leaders in their 70s, and that it is some nuance that I think that we all can bring to the gerontocracy discussion.

And really invest in, in, in a smart way of, of, of dealing with a broken system.

Similar sentiment.

That's how you get to Dartmouth.

(laughs) Exactly.

Um, but there's so many outrages there in the news, and it's exhausting, and it's really hard to figure out how we're g- gonna get the message across on all of these things.

But this does go to a core thing that a lot of people hate about Washington, which is this idea that politicians, whether they're Democrats who are, you know, doing- profiting off stock trades from in- insider information, or they're the President of the United States getting this plane or flying over to Scotland and spending millions of dollars to promote his, uh, golf course, that they're all in it for themselves.

And we know, in 2006, the anti-corruption message was a really, really powerful one for Democrats when they were out of power, when they wielded it against, um, Republicans, uh, in the wake of the t- 2004 election.

And I do think that Democrats really need to take that sort of message and turn it against Republicans, and p- get Republicans on the record on things like the Scotland golf course, the, uh, plane from the Qataris.

Also, one thing we didn't touch on when we're talking about that plane is that it is a gift from a big sponsor of extremist groups, people who fund activity against the United States, and that is something that shouldn't be lost on us either.

Liz, w- looking, uh, into your crystal ball, uh, what do you see?

You did a lot of work on him, didn't you?

I did.

I did.

And that interview you just played, it was actually from December 2023, but it goes viral every few months because it was a classic of the genre.

Casey did a masterful job, um, throwing RFK Jr.'s words back at him.

And he's, like, a really slippery guy in these interviews.

He just goes out and just spews lies, completely made up things.

As he did the only gun bill that pa- that's passed in, like, decades, gun safety bill.