How do they move from experimentation and successful pilots to actually scaling? What disciplines or practices have you put in place so that you can take something that's working in that experimentation phase into production and into scale itself? Discipline

is a good word, right? Because I think the hardest thing I find challenging, and I'm a huge believer in test and learn, but you can almost pretty much say, oh, I want to test and learn about everything, right? And it can get out of hand.

It can get a little bit reckless.

Budgets are involved.

So in large organizations, I think there's an appetite towards testing and learning and experimenting and doing proof of concepts.

But I like to frame... experiments as a way to almost buy learning at a lower cost, right? So you don't get the luxury of learning this in a university.

You don't necessarily even get a luxury of doing this as a certification.

What have you found that really helps pull people through those early phases of change and get to the point where they are excited and they are ready to embed a new process and a new way of working and delivering value to customers at scale?