And, uh, I suppose your recollections of that day.

Uh, yeah, you know, when I, when I think of that day, you know, obviously, uh, tremendous sadness, but, but also a tremendous pride, you know, that, uh, the way the members conducted themselves that day, like, you know, they, they, It's been talked about, but, you know, there was no world, you know, in existence where they weren't going to go into those buildings and do something for the people, you know, a quarter mile up in the sky.

So, you know, they hit the stairs.

You know, I was just watching a 60 Minutes on the 20th anniversary, and, you know, Pete Hayden was talking about being in the lobby.

and he was giving them their orders, and, you know, they all had that look.

They were all looking at each other, and they looked at him, and, you know, he was sending them up the stairs, and he says, you know, they all knew what it meant to hit the stairs and go up, and, you know, he said, I saw them hugging each other as they walked through the stairs.

You know, it was just a, you know, that makes me, you know, a beam of pride, you know, incredibly heroic deeds.

i was saying you know i mean we're talking about now uh you know going uh through the the days and weeks in the immediate event and the aftermath and the the great damage that has been caused some of it unavoidable but are there any lessons that we should have learned uh that we haven't acted upon yet

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

When Chief Downey came to quarters, like, you know, it was a big deal.

Like he didn't come a lot, and, uh, when he showed up, he had a presence about him.

He was Chief Downey, you know? Like everyone would tense up, and the chief's in quarters, and he's in the kitchen, and, uh, we all went back to, uh, Rescue 4 in a daze, sitting in the kitchen just...

I don't remember much conversation going on.

We were just kind of all kind of shocked, you know, that, that we'd just lost two guys, and then, uh, John down the block at 163.

So when the chief walked into the kitchen, he was everything that, uh, that you'd want him to be.

You haven't felt it since.