They don't have the ability, right?

The, yeah, I, I just can't believe that some of our top makers can't get into this concept of the moving horse's body is a totally different set of shapes than the standing horse's body.

Anyway, at, at first we thought, "Well, we'll, we just need to go out and look for saddle makers' work that will enable a horse to move." And saddle makers have their opinions about that, and we couldn't find anything on the market.

And so working with saddle makers, I, over the course of three and a half years and eight prototypes, and again, I credit Linda Parelli for really having the awareness about horses' movement.

She educated me at first because I, I just was seeing something that was, um, that didn't have a form or substance in my mind.

The, I didn't feel confident being a fairly new horse person.

Well, I, I became confident fairly quickly, enough to say to the saddle makers who said, "Let me show you how I do it," I just started watching the horses And they would, they would tell you if you knew what you were looking at, everything from the softness in the eye that would, um, become soft when the anticipation of the uncomfortable saddle wasn't uncomfortable-

Wow.