Do you think the U.S. might draw some lessons from from that conflict in the sense of how technology should be integrated and adapted at speed?

Yeah, there are a lot of lessons to be drawn from that conflict.

kind of the one that stands out the most to me is that in the research and development cycle as you're improving your technology and developing it, it is really coming from the battlefield, which drives an urgency.

And that's not something new.

We've seen this, I think, in probably every conflict There's been some new technology that was unanticipated by the planners that because lives are on the line, we throw kind of the weight of the department behind it and solve it pretty quickly.

The unexploded ordinance, the UXOs from the Gulf War kind of stand out as another example.

But in this case, um i think there's also another opportunity to learn from innovating on the commercial space which is what the ukrainians absolutely did they they adopted things like um agriculture drones to become bombers right so you're innovating by adapting commercial technology very quickly to a military use and on the military side the trick is being able to manufacture at scale The Ukrainian scale for drones is I was in a briefing a few weeks ago and it just it was kind of mind boggling to me in that they're using over 800 drone manufacturers and.

How do we achieve both? Is it possible to limit cyber vulnerabilities while achieving that interoperability?

And when did it, when did it become apparent that you were gonna be, have that opportunity, and that you found the self-confidence to, to take that opportunity and to do so much of it?

Oh, man.

I, uh, I was, I was working, I was doggy paddling like a crazy person trying to lead the information technology for the intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, so the intel side of the department.

And I was just starting to feel like I knew what I was talking about.

I had my head around what needed to be done.

I was making good decision, decisions there.

I had a couple of doozies in that role as well.

Right.