Sure.

It's like this dialogue, like you're going back and forth.

But nowadays, you can already tell ChatGPT, it's like, "Hey, can you please go around the internet and search information for me?" So it's not too different to the intern you hired.

When you hire an intern, you know, you need to give them feedback every day, every hour, but at some point you got a proper employee, and you just tell them at the beginning of the week what to do, and ideally they do it.

What we see with AI now, there are, there's many tasks where you can just tell an AI, "Hey, can you just build me an application, for example, which is organizing my, my fitness and health schedule and gives me all my perfect dietary requirements?" And this is not one quick answer which AI chatbot would give you.

The AI chatbot agent will go out there, read a bunch of things, similar to any employee you would hire.

Read a bunch of things, put something together, and then it's also software engineer at the same time.

So Lennart, where do you fall on the possibility of greater federal enforcement on the AI issue?

Yeah.

But if they find the right niche...

You know, it's pretty hard.

NVIDIA built this more general thing, and if you like a hardware startup, you want to find, like, a more narrow niche to be, like, more application-specific.

And if you hit the right point, right? Whatever the next big thing is in AI, they might succeed, and we just see more and more of them getting there, right? And like we see Anthropic and other companies using Google GPUs, using Trainium.

And, and again, the debate of the show here, Huawei is also getting better.

They will also just...

Mm-hmm.

Does the same dynamic hold here or if not, why?

What are the differences? Yeah, I guess there are many different facets to being addicted to something, right? I mean, in the ideal case, it just means all Chinese firms are like really reluctant to adopt Chinese chips, right? And therefore they have like less revenue.

SMIC is wondering, nobody wants to buy their chips.

And instead all the Chinese just buy US chips.

I already talked upon how just like SMIC and semiconductor gets anyways, independent of AI, right? But it's a fair thing to say, like the less people use like Huawei's AI software ecosystem, the worse it is.

I think that's a fair argument to be made.

I just think they know they want to produce it anyways.

Like it's not like Alibaba is not going to buy these chips because of these sort of warnings.

Mm-hmm.

This made them then pivot to AI as like, "Well, if we can't trade on the market anymore, what should we do with all of these GPUs? Let's turn towards AI.

It's this new hot, cool thing." Um, and then I think the other thing which is important here, when you have these hedge funds, they do, like, really low-level optimizations, like writing on kernels.

They just, they don't do, like, just high-level PyTorch.

They go down there and try to get, like, every single point of utilization out of the models, uh, out of the hardware.

And this helped them, right? We know, like-

Yeah.

Like broader control to some degree on all of the world deciding, to some degree dealing with the Gulf States, dea- dealing with a bunch of in-between countries, um, where people were worried about chip smuggling, but also data centers being built there.

There are these other calculuses, right, that say, what are the costs that we have to bear? How do you think about that?

Let's go back to the Huawei system, I think, because it's like a nice example of exactly the point which I'm going to make.

They will be able to build systems which are on paper similar to the American system.

The difference, just like as you're saying, it eats way much power.

It requires three times more chips, right? And like you have all of these inefficiencies.

Does this mean they cannot now train, let's say, a GBD 4.5 model? Absolutely, they can't.

This is kind of what I'm expecting, right? The difference is just like, while TSMC is churning out 5 million chips per year, they're churning out less than a million chips and they need three times more chips to achieve the same performance, right? This is exactly the argument which I'm making here.

What are the considerations for each of those scenarios? You know, how should people making their own mind up on what will ultimately be a political choice for us to hopefully think about those two?