Talk to me about that.

There is, and it's evidence that is corroborated.

Again, that's the key word.

How do we know? Is somebody making this up? Is this just something coming out of a subconscious mind? But as we investigate things like near-death experiences and deathbed visions and these dreams, as you mentioned, that are breaking out all over the Middle East, and many times in countries where it's closed, you can't share the gospel of Jesus legally.

And yet people are having dreams about Jesus.

But here's where the corroboration comes in.

What is not happening is people are going to sleep having a dream about Jesus and awaking as a Christian.

Mm-hmm.

Talk to me about that.

There is, and it's evidence that is corroborated.

Again, that's the key word.

How do we know? Is somebody making this up? Is this just something coming out of a subconscious mind? But as we investigate things like near-death experiences and deathbed visions and these dreams, as you mentioned, that are breaking out all over the Middle East, and many times in countries where it's closed, you can't share the gospel of Jesus legally, and yet people are having dreams about Jesus.

But here's where the corroboration comes in.

What is not happening is people are going to sleep having a dream about Jesus and awaking as a Christian.

That's not what happens.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

These are not, uh, something conjured up by a subconscious mind.

These are not medically induced or medicine induced, drug induced.

Um, there's something else going on here.

But here's where the corroboration hits me.

We have numerous cases where people in this predest vision will see what's coming for them, uh, eternity.

They'll see someone there who they didn't know had died.

[laughs] Yeah.

... why some and not others?

For...

Yeah, it's a personal issue for me and my wife 'cause my wife has a incurable neuromuscular condition.

Uh, she has been in pain for 20 years, every single day.

She will be in pain every day for the rest of her life unless God a miracle, which he has not chosen to do.

So this is a very personal issue to us and to many people.

Uh, in my book, The Case for Miracles, I have a whole chapter from a philosopher whose wife was dying at the time and, and the same, had the same issues.

So do you think that miracles are, are necessary in 2025, 2026?

Talk to me about those discoveries.

Yeah, this is so crucial because, you know, right, we're looking for certainty.

We're looking for evidence that makes sense, that adds up and so forth.

And, you know, so let's go to science.

Let's go to cosmology.

Cosmology is the study of the origin of the universe.

And, you know, for centuries, scientists believed the universe was static.

talk to me about this for a minute? Yes.

Hmm.

They're sending up a trial balloon.

How are my parents gonna react? So often they'll make a joke.

"Yeah, my question for God would be why did you make the platypus so weird?" You know, and, and you laugh and you say, "Okay, but that's not the real question.

What is the real question you would ask God?" And it, because you were willing to engage, they'll go deeper.

And your child might say, "Well, you know, I have a friend at school and their mom is dying.

She's in the hospital, and, and why does God allow that kind of thing to happen?" Um, now you're getting at the real issues that are bothering them, and, and I like to ask a follow-up question often because they'll ask the question, um, "Why does God allow suffering?" But then I ask, "Well, okay, of all the possible questions, why did you ask that one?"

Yeah.

How do you, how do you wrestle with those two ideas?

Well, I think, first of all, for those who are, um, quote-unquote victims in the sense that they're part of a church that a pastor falls and so forth, w- how do they not lose their faith? I think number one is our faith is not in the pastor, our faith is in Jesus, our faith is in God.

And I mentioned to you earlier the reasons why I became convinced that, um, Jesus is who he claimed to be through his resurrection from the dead.

Historical data.

You know, I go back to that.

I go back to that.

Uh, yes, there are men of God who fall and who sin and who forfeit their pulpit because of immorality, but I go back to the evidence.

so your incentive is to protect them.

did he say?

He said, first of all, the teachings of Jesus.

You ever read the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapter 5? The Beatitudes, the most brilliant insights into human nature.

These are not the words of a crazy guy.

And besides which, the way in which we document his identity of being the Son of God is through the resurrection, and that's irrelevant.

His mental health is not relevant at the time of that.

But...

Because of this, he gets

They killed him

for it.

That's right.

So there's all these negative headwinds.

And I think it's a pruning process where the people today who are proclaiming that they're followers of Jesus probably really are followers of Jesus.

You know, George Barna, who does a lot of surveys and so forth, did a study.

He came up with five questions to try to determine, is someone a legitimate Christian? Five theological questions.

Again, the question becomes, Lee, why?

How big was the direct impact to the church? 'Cause I read stories about how-

Oh, it was huge.

It was huge.

I mean, it, it broke my heart.

He's a friend.

I mean, it broke my heart.

I mean, it, it, if you ask me, who are the five people in Christendom, leaders in Christendom, who are least likely to fall, Bill would be one of them.

How did that happen? What, what was so special about Prophet Muhammad?

Discover more at HopeRestored.com. That's HopeRestored.com.

Now because I had no belief in God, I really lacked a moral framework for my life.

So I lived a very immoral and drunken and profane and narcissistic, self-absorbed, really in a lot of ways self-destructive kind of life.

That was my life.

And we're jumping in as he gets really to the heart of his message.

Why is the resurrection foundational? Because Jesus, in a variety of different ways, made transcendent and messianic and divine claims about himself.

He claimed to be the Son of God.

But so what? I could claim to be the Son of God.

So talk about what you've learned about these deathbed visions.

Yeah, first of all, they're biblical.

I mean, that's important to know there's biblical precedent for this in Acts chapter 7.

We see how Stephen, who's described as being full of the Holy Spirit, is about to be killed.

He's about to be stoned to death.

And he looks up, and he sees the heavens open up, and he sees Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father.

So there's a biblical precedent for people who are on the verge of dying having a vision of what's to come.

So speak to that if you would.

So talk about what you've learned about these deathbed visions.

Yeah, first of all, they're biblical.

I mean, that's important to know there's biblical precedent for this in Acts chapter 7.

We see how Stephen, who's described as being full of the Holy Spirit, is about to be killed.

He's about to be stoned to death.

And he looks up, and he sees the heavens open up, and he sees Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father.

So there's a biblical precedent for people who are on the verge of dying having a vision of what's to come.

So speak to that if you would.

Okay.

Um, so that didn't really happen.

But the biggest mistake in terms of historical understanding of Christmas boils down to one word, one word in the Greek, and how it gets translated or mistranslated.

Here's the typical story we hear at Christmas.

Mary and Joseph, because of the census, had to go to Bethlehem to be counted in the census 'cause he was of the House of David.

So they go to Bethlehem and Mary's pregnant and she's getting close to giving birth.

They knock on the door of an inn or a lodge, and the innkeeper opens the door and says, "Hey, no room.

Who is the real Santa Claus?

I want, I wanna know, what's the most common misunderstanding people have about modern miracles?

Well, I think, um, a lot of people will attribute things to being a miracle when it's really not.

You know, "Oh, I got a parking place here.

Oh, that's a miracle." No, probably not.

Um, sometimes miracles are just big coincidences.

Uh, sometimes it's fraud, somebody trying to fool you.

Sometimes it's the placebo effect where you think you're gonna feel better and all of a sudden you feel better.

Um, w- what are you looking for as you val- as you evaluate the validity of someone's claim of having experienced a supernatural event? What, in other words, what do you see as a responsible way of doing that?

[cheering]

I've, I've joined the cult.

I'm a Texan, yep.

We moved down to Texas a few years ago to be, uh, near our grandchildren, and, uh, they've become total Texans, my grandchildren.

Oh my goodness.

They got the cowboy hats.

They've taken horseback riding lessons.

[laughs]

Okay.

I'll give you an example.

Miracles don't necessarily happen evenly distributed around the globe.

They tend to cluster in places around the world where the gospel is just breaking in.

And often, those are primitive societies.

They can't read a Bible if you gave it to 'em.

But they respond to something supernatural.

(laughs)

Oh.

He doesn't know what to do.

Um, and he begins to pray, "God, I- I- I'm stuck.

I don't, I don't know what to do." And a man, scruffy kind of guy, comes walking up to the car, and he opens the car, whose doors were jammed, he opens the door.

He reaches in.

He lifts out this pastor and takes him about 50 yards away from the car, which then explodes.

And he says to the pastor, he says, "You're gonna be okay.

Um, what's a mystical dream?

She did something else that was really weird as, as she was dying in the hospice.

hospice.... she kept reaching her arms up.

Yeah.

And at first, I thought she was stretching, 'cause she's on a bed and she- Yeah.

But then I've heard other people- Yes.

... do this t- What is that about? That is extremely common.

I have a chapter in my book, Seeing the Supernatural, about death, what are called deathbed visions, which is basically what you're talking about.

(laughs)

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