And of course, it's that great story in the late 30s where

the New Deal Democrats had to reach across the aisle to the Republican fundraisers and say, we don't necessarily like each other, but we've got to work together.

We actually are mobilizing at scale.

And while the Army and Navy are great operators and strategists, they do not understand industrialization.

They think they need 200 aircraft, don't know how to get there.

They think they need 500 tanks.

They actually need probably 2,000 aircraft.

But talk to me about space generally, but the space sector and why that is important for supply chains.

So what was it like for you moving through those ranks and getting used to the fact that it might have started with 20 or 30 people, then all of a sudden it sort of moved into hundreds and then thousands?

Well, I think leadership, of course, is taught, it's nurtured.

But for example, I think, has been the biggest influence on my leadership journey.

An example would be when I did take command of my first major warship, and that was HMAS Parramatta in 2007.

I found myself saying or doing things almost surreally, but it was coming out of me and it was sounding good because it was all that leadership example, training, nurturing, Sure, I suffered a little bit of imposter syndrome, but it all was actually all that 15 years before of actually observing and experiencing different situations and watching some great female and male leaders.

It just was inside me and it just started occurring.

I always look at the example of one of my first commanding officers was a captain, Chris Oxenbold.

What are we missing in the private sector when it comes to that?