And so what do you think about the connection between shame and black women and health?

It's really hard because, again, everything is about evidence base.

If you're asking for my personal opinion, then I would say it's, you know, I think the one thing that people ask me often is what causes cancer? And I think we've got to call a spade a spade.

A lot of the time I get these questions.

What causes cancer? Is it my trauma? Is it my childhood trauma? Is it my stress levels? Is it this? And I think what I can't answer that because I can't.

And it would be out of my own profession to say, you know, especially with so many people following the work of Black Women Rising, to turn around and say, people, oh, it's your stress and it's this and it's that.

But what I do know is I know because of my own journey with shame, because I was someone who was sexually abused.

So what is it, you know, on a practical level, you know, how have you built that resilience to come through everything? Yeah.