What was happening inside PTL while this empire was growing?

Well, I think within the Bakers and their constellation of Of mass media, um, connections.

There was a lot of competition, there was a lot of jockeying for power and position, and also within the Bakker family, there was a lot of strife.

Most notably, in 1987, Time Magazine broke a story of what was happening in the inner circles of PTL, and the story that came out was this: that a woman who was working as the secretary at the church, her name was Jessica Hahn, had been involved in an extramarital relationship with Jim Bakker, and that she had been paid a certain amount of money for her silence.

In later years, Jessica Hahn would argue that her experience was one of sexual assault.

There was a $279,000 payoff for her silence, and eventually news broke, and it was a huge scandal at the time.

Bakker ended up stepping down, and eventually, um, the fundraising activities that Praise the Lord, the PTL Club, had engaged in, I think it was like 1984 through 1987, led to criminal charges against Bakker.

Yes.

I understand that, um, there's some connection there.

It was, and I think it's important to note that it wasn't the only song.

So there were many forms of evangelical Christian worship.

In fact, an anthem that was popularized by the now disgraced band, the Newsboys, um, a song called God's Not Dead, which was another worship song, was also sung in the days leading up to the January 6th insurrection attempt.

How Great Is Our God was one of those.

It's probably the most popular and the most well-known, but to me the bigger story is that it's that type of music that is used in a particular type of evangelical Christian community that is being really effectively deployed in conservative groups.

And I think it lets you know that conservative Republican activists understand their base, and it's this form of evangelical Christianity.

But in the last few years, how has what has traditionally been so-called white evangelicalism been transformed? And how has a popular culture tinge to it been so important?

Was this song, in fact, sung before the January 6th attack on the capital in 2021? I understand that, um, there's some connection there.

It was, and I think it's important to note that it wasn't the only song.

So there were many forms of evangelical Christian worship.

In fact, an anthem that was popularized by the now disgraced band, the Newsboys, um, a song called God's Not Dead, which was another worship song, was also sung in the days leading up to the January 6th insurrection attempt.

How Great Is Our God was one of those.

It's probably the most popular and the most well-known, but to me the bigger story is that it's that type of music that is used in a particular type of evangelical Christian community that is being really effectively deployed in conservative groups.

And I think it lets you know that conservative Republican activists understand their base, and it's this form of evangelical Christianity.

But in the last few years, how has what has traditionally been so-called white evangelicalism been transformed? And how has a popular culture tinge to it been so important?