[coughs]

... that was dominating, uh, kind of the politics but also the international relations of Israel was when, not if, Saudi Arabia was gonna join the Abraham Accords.

So we were a couple of years into the Abraham Accords.

Um, the Bennett and Lapid government had put a lot of effort into trying to expand them.

They didn't succeed in expanding them, but they did do a lot of things that kind of, uh, added some content to them.

So there was a lot of trips that we did to all the Abraham Accords countries.

There was that Negev Summit, if you remember, that Lapid hosted with all of the foreign ministers, including Egypt's came.

Which leader running in this election has the best chance of reversing Israel's pariah status, and how?"

What are you hearing, Laser?

Sure.

So I wouldn't get too caught up in the statements from both sides.

We know that President Trump has made threats at the same time, or sometimes the next day he'll say we're near a deal with Iran, and then he'll turn and he'll make these, you know, very... bombastic threats that people get all twisted out about.

And then, of course, with Iran, you're going to have all sorts of threats and statements and things like that.

None of that really indicates whether we're going to go to war, back to war, whether we're not.

So I wouldn't get too caught up on all of that stuff.

So what did he say?

Yeah

... with something that might be baldly political, but I'll try to make it so it's not.

We live in Israel, and of course, the role of Torah in this Jewish society is one that has been the subject of healthy debate, but sometimes bitter debate.

And I think the three of us generally are on the side of that Torah can be something that is enriching and ultimately leads to, is life-giving.

But I think there are also, unfortunately, some elements that use it as, "I am going to decide because I am grasping onto, you know, this version of the Torah.

This is good, this an evil, and I am going to make this black and white dichotomy, and that is going to define my use of Torah in society." Instead of a life-giving force, it's this purely moralistic force.

And I think it's interesting that here in Bereshit, in the Parsha, it says, "When you focus on that, motamut." You know, that is not the way of life, but that is a way towards something else.

[laughs]

But now it is kind of more of a reality that could occur at any moment.

Yeah, and it's not as bad as you would have thought it was, I think.

Some would have been told on October 6th that over the next few years, Iran, on four separate events, will fire drones, ballistic missiles, and really in massive numbers at Israel.

And people died and there was some damage, but it in no way shut down the country.

And it was something that I think people... dealt with quite well and got on with it.

So that was less problematic than I think we would have imagined.

And even though Iran continues to fire at the region, they haven't done it at Israel.

So what's happening here?

describe the mood in Israel in the lead up to this anniversary?

Yeah, so this is the first anniversary in which all of the hostages living and dead are back in Israel.

So it's somewhat unique compared to the other two anniversaries.

Of course, this is still very fresh, let's not forget.

It's only three years, but now since everyone is back inside of Israel, people can start thinking about how to fully commemorate this, and it's a little bit less raw.

At the same time, the wars that have erupted in the wake of October 7th have not ended, right? There's still IDF troops in the Gaza Strip.

They're still in Lebanon.

With the conflicts that have followed October the 7th, What's the view in Israel about whether those conflicts have made Israel safer or at greater risk of further attacks and conflict? I think

Many, many, many reports, a snowball effect of reports, a pile on on the prime minister, in my opinion, very strategically timed ahead of this election, because otherwise, why would all this information be coming out right now, three years almost to the date of the massacre?

Yeah, so I think I would agree with you that there is a reason behind this and people want to make Netanyahu look bad, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.

I will also say when we're looking at these reports, it's hindsight and there could be kind of these general warnings all the time.

And I'm sure it's happening now as well.

If you don't do something, if you don't let more aid into Gaza, it could blow up again or the West Bank.

And then you could point at that and said he should have known.

So Yoav Galant, he was the defense minister at the time, he actually kind of said something which might help, you know, because he said the only warning that was from the Hamas sources through the Shin Bet was this general warning that Sinwar, who was the Hamas leader who planned October 7th, he's now dead, would make the prisons shake, quake, and that the Israeli security services interpreted that as basically that Hamas would take on ownership of the kidnapped Israeli researcher Elizabeth Tsirkov, who was kidnapped by Qatayev Hezbollah in Iraq, and they would say, okay, she only gets released when we Hamas get our prisoners.

And indeed, nothing has happened.

And I just wonder if U.S. President Donald Trump is saying, OK, it is not at all in America's interest to take these actions rebels, we'll call them, on again, especially in light of what happened last time, last year, when the U.S. tried to create some kind of military solution and ended up basically turning on its heel and walking away.

Yep, that's true.

So a few points there.

Yeah, absolutely.

They control where the vast majority of the population in Yemen is.

If you look on a map, the population centers are in the west.

They don't control the port of Aden, but they control the capital Sana'a and all the densely populated areas over there.

Everything seems very loggerhead, shall we say, and do you see any way out of this?

The diplomatic correspondent for The Times of Israel, Lazar Berman, spoke to Jane Hill about the allegations.

There have been a series of, uh, questions about what Prime Minister Benjamin Ne- Netanyahu knew, what he didn't know, and his responsibility for the October 7th attacks.

Now, Netanyahu has made the case that his security services failed him, and he ultimately was not responsible, that the Shin Bet intelligence service, that the army did not alert him in time of some warning signals on the morning of October 7th.

And had they woken him up, he could have taken action to stop it.

And that has been really his message throughout the war since October 7th, 2023.

This new article from the Haaretz, um, daily really flips this around.

It al- alleges that, uh, the UAE's president, Mohammed bin Zayed, actually in a 45-minute phone call, warned Prime Minister Netanyahu that Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar was planning a major attack.

And as you suggest, this is the latest in allegations around what was or wasn't done in the run-up to the October 7th attacks.

So just briefly, what are we hearing?

Yeah.

Uh, so the UAE warning is the more, uh, substantive one.

Um, this comes out of an upcoming book from Shlomi Eldar and, I forget, I apologize, the other, uh, the other, uh, author.

Um, they released this in Haaretz.

It's, um, reporting that, uh, MBZ, Mohammed bin Zayed, who's the ruler, uh, of the UAE, uh, warned in a 45-minute phone call 10 days before the October 7th attack, so late September 2023, that Yahya Sinwar was planning a major attack on Israel.

Um, Mohammed Dahlan, who is the Gaza-born, formerly Gaza-based, exiled, uh, Palestinian strongman who is now a senior advisor to MBZ, was also on the call.

Attempting to.

So what's the fallout?

Yes.

Uh, so let me give a little context first.

There was the Trump 20-point plan, which Israel basically approved in October of last year.

Hamas approved the first phase, which is an end to the fighting, the release of all the hostages, release of a lot of, uh, Palestinian prisoners, including a lot of terrorists with blood on their hands.

And then, uh, the f- second phase would focus on the disarmament of Hamas and rehabilitation, reconstruction, and the full pullout of the IDF.

Obviously, Hamas does not want to give up their weapons.

Mediated.

Give us a bit of an update with what's happening in the conflict.

Sure.

I think the biggest update that people should take away is that we're exactly where we were, big picture, weeks ago, in that Trump threatens.

He, uh, if you remember back in April, there was the threat, I think it was April 9th, uh, to end a civilization, and everyone got all upset because you can't talk like that, and then he backed off.

And since then, it's been a series of bombastic threats.

I don't know why anyone pays attention to the threats anymore because I don't think he's actually going to do anything significant.

We've seen that he's willing to, uh, strike assets that have to do with the Strait of Hormuz.

So what do you read into this silence?

So what do we make of this meeting? What does it tell us about the dynamic between the pair and the state of the conflicts in the Middle East? Lazar Berman is the diplomatic reporter at The Times of Israel, and he spoke with Sally Sara.

So we know the immediate reactions from, uh, both sides.

Both are saying that it was very positive.

Prime Minister Netanyahu put out a video, uh, before he went to the f- memorial service for Senator Graham that said this was n- one of the best conversations he has ever had, uh, with President Trump.

The head of Israel's public diplomacy effort said that she shared an anecdote that, uh, Netanyahu told Trump that they're talking about Lindsey Graham, and Netanyahu said that he was Israel's number one friend, and Trump said, um, "Actually, I'm the number one friend.

He was the number two friend." So they're trying to show that they're on the same side.

Well, of course, on the same side, but they are, are, are aligned that they share the goal of stopping Iran, uh, from reaching a nuclear weapon.

Lazar, what do we know about the differing views from the US and Israeli leaders on how to get there?

Lazar, what do we know about how this, uh, meeting went?

So we know the immediate reactions from, uh, both sides, both the Israeli and the US, and they are-- both are saying that it was very positive.

Prime Minister Netanyahu put out a video, uh, before he went to the f- memorial service for Senator Graham that said this was n- one of the best conversations he has ever had, uh, with President Trump.

The head of Israel's public diplomacy effort said that, she shared an anecdote that, uh, Netanyahu told Trump that, they were talking about Lindsey Graham, and Netanyahu said that he was Israel's number one friend, and Trump said, um, "Actually, I'm the number one friend." He was the number two friend.

So they're trying to show that they're on the same side.

Well, of course, on the same side, but they are, a- are aligned that they share the goal of stopping Iran, uh, from reaching a nuclear weapon.

But we all know that the way to do so is where the argument is.

What's the public view in Israel right now, uh, about what should happen, uh, particularly regarding Iran and also, uh, Lebanon?

In any case, he's meant to take off, and what do you expect will come out of these meetings with US President Donald Trump that are set for tomorrow?

Sure.

I think there's a sense that, uh, Israel doesn't really know what Trump wants to do.

So to expect, you know, cities or units in the army to ex- to, to understand what's gonna happen either is even less likely.

So I think that's where we are right now.

Um, Trump and Netanyahu were meeting every two months in the first year of Trump's term.

This is gonna be the seventh meeting in Wa- in the US, the sixth in Washington.

So just to throw that out there, Palestinian violence, terrorist attacks, stone-throwing, Molotov cocktails, rammings, things of that nature are happening every day multiple times a day.

Why do you think this is, Lazar?

Sure.

Fr- from the Iranian side, uh, let's consider their logic.

Why are they continuing to strike shipping in the Strait of Hormuz? Why are they continuing to strike, uh, US assets in, uh, Arab countries? It's because they are trying to assert their understanding or their desired reading of the MOU that was signed in June, uh, in Versailles.

They think it gives them control over what happens in the strait.

They say, "Okay, it says for 60 days we can't charge ships for coming through, but afterwards it's up to us, and they c- we can charge for services and all sorts of other things." And they intend to do that.

They do not like the fact that, uh, they see their control and their lev- their control over the straits slipping.

But what you're saying now is that Israel can cause more pain to Iran than the US?

So let's kind of try and unwind a little bit and get into Iran's head here.

Sure.

Uh, I think the big question that one might ask is, if you remember a month ago, um, even less, when, uh, the terms of the MOU that Trump signed with Iran became clear, we all said, we said it here, that this is a victory for Iran.

V- Trump seems to be willing to give them whatever they want.

Um, all they have to do is to continue talking with him, string him along, and he'll continue to make concessions.

He even made concessions on Iran's ability to control what happens in Lebanon.

He seemed ready to release all this money to Iran.

So can you give us an update here?

But in the meantime, how is Israel responding?

Sure.

So, um, Turkey was kicked out of the program because in 2017 it brought in Russian S-400 anti-aircraft batteries.

Uh, it is a NATO member.

It's an important NATO member because its geography, first of all, it's on the southern flank of the alliance.

It controls Russia's ability to get to the Mediterranean.

It is also the biggest land army besides the US, so it's the biggest land army in Europe.

So when you're talking about the population in Syria of Kurds and in Turkey, just remind us how many numbers we're talking about.

When does the clock start ticking though, laser? Because-

That's also a question we don't know.

Um, they, they say that there was a virtual signing already, uh, on Sunday, and, uh, the Pakistanis and now, uh, the Americans and the Iranians say there's going to be a signing in Geneva on Friday.

When I spoke to, uh, officials who knew about this in Europe, well, who would know about this, they said the Swiss have not gotten any requests.

They found out about it from the Pakistanis as well.

Let's not forget that the Swiss are dealing right now with basically hosting the G7.

So the G7 is in France on Lake Geneva, but the biggest big city with big diplomatic missions and who are set up for this is Geneva.

Okay

but Pakistan is somehow organizing this?

That's likely what's going to happen.

There was a desire to have some in-person ceremony included in Islamabad, Pakistan.

The Iranians don't want it because they're in the driver's seat.

They're the ones who are not desperate for a deal.

The US is the one that's desperate for a deal, as are the Gulf countries.

So Iran gets to play, you know, "Yeah, we can do it, but we're not gonna run after, we're not gonna give you any photo ops." So it could be a Zoom thing, but I don't think it's-- You know, with Iran continuing to say it's not finished yet, it might be in the coming days.

So how do you see the ripple effect of this war in terms of Israel's relationship with the Gulf States, first of all?

What are they fighting back with? Because that, for the IDF, has made a pretty big change.

Yeah, absolutely.

So Israel's been fighting Hezbollah since the 1980s.

Um, it-- Iran established the organization amongst the Shiite community, um, while Israel was, uh, holding a security barrier or security zone in southern Lebanon.

It would stay there till 2000.

And from the enemy being the PLO, the Palestine Liberation Organization, which Israel successfully kicked out to Tunis, uh, their enemy became, uh, this Shiite organization, Hezbollah.

Of course, famously, they bombed the French barracks and, and, uh, killed also over two hundred American, uh, Marines.

Was the IDF not as ready as they thought they were? Or did Hezbollah's capabilities kind of leapfrog a bit? Like, did they make a sudden advance?

So how could there be any kind of negotiation with Lebanon with Hezbollah still in power?

Well, they're not really in power.

The, the current government h-has, I believe, 24 ministers, and two of them are Hezbollah.

They're not controlling anything.

It's just a symbolic thing, and they, they could be kicked out.

Um, Hezbollah is not controlling-- This is not a government that's controlled by Hezbollah.

Their power is from society, that they can, they-- There's always the threat of arms.

So roll it out for us.

Thank you very much, US President Donald Trump, but we need to take our security into our own hands."

So the question is, first of all, is Netanyahu going to do that? Uh, I'd say that's unlikely.

Everything he's shown until now is that, um, his guiding approach is that there will be no daylight with the Americans, and when Trump tells him to do something, he'll try to, you know, quietly behind the scenes convince him, but if not, then there's nothing to do.

And you see that at front after front after front, that Trump likes to come to these very hastily made ceasefires.

Many of these agreements have been negotiated by Steve Witkoff, who is a businessman who has no understanding of, uh, no background in these issues.

First of all, even if he did, he wouldn't be able to handle, you know, seven files like Ukraine, Gaza, Le- uh, Iran, uh, all at once, but he doesn't, and he has kind of this naive, childlike view, and he makes these personal connections with terrorist leaders and awful people.

Uh, I think that's a big part of the problem, that Trump leans, leans on him so much.

Is Israel looking to the future? Is Europe looking to the future now at, in a post-Trump era, but saying at the same time, "Listen, we need to be able to stand on our own two feet"?

Nice Guy came with an illustration of Trump wearing sunglasses and holding some kind of weapon.

Right.

It looked very, very cool.

But I think these types of threats are becoming less and less effective.

His credibility in issuing these threats is being reduced.

certainly Iran doesn't seem especially worried that there is going to be some sort of game-changing military attack.

What they feel is that they have survived quite, and they're quite stable right now, the worst of what Israel and the U.S. can throw at them.

What are you hearing in terms of talks between Lebanon and Israel? There's such jubilation in a way in terms of how the media covered them over the past couple of weeks, but it appears to me that something is stalled here.

Just to clarify what you just said, in Lebanon, you're talking about the 2024 ceasefire agreement, not anything that's been broken now because we're not there yet.

Certainly.

Um, and, and we'll get back to what could happen in Lebanon with another agreement.

Um, in Iran it looks like we're kind of heading in the same direction.

There's going-- there was damage done to the regime, significant damage, killing of the leaders, uh, reduction of their military capabilities and their ability to rehabilitate themselves.

No question.

But when it comes down to it, the regime is still very much in power.

So, Lazar, tell us what is basically the mood of our government in terms of this imposed ceasefire?

So what has, uh, Israeli leadership told the people of Israel what their end goal is for this war?

Sure.

So Israel, uh, especially Netanyahu, but a couple other spokespeople as well, have, have actually been very consistent and more consistent than, uh, the Trump White House in, in terms of the goals.

They've said three things.

One is obviously on the nuclear program to making sure that they cannot move forward on the, uh, on a nuclear weapons program, their ur- enrichment program.

Um, stopping the ballistic missile program and keeping the program from being moved underground and away from the reach of the US and Israel.

And of course, its ability to, uh, support armed proxies in the region, including in Lebanon, uh, and, and Hamas in Gaza.

Does the Israeli government, does Prime Minister Netanyahu, have any further plans to create those conditions after, as and when, uh, military operations end?