Yeah.

And so I think early on I knew, I mean, I'm biased, like, I think everything is business, business, business' success is so based on the efficacy of marketing and the brand, and it's, it does start...

It, the product has to work, but I firmly believe, um, how valuable the, the dimension that I look after is.

But equally, if I don't understand how that whole machine is working, the value I deliver is going to only be, um, a small fraction of what it could be.

So I think early on, parents, like, very much, I was, like, very clear on just what sales meant, how you hustle.

Like, like, both of my parents, like, great entrepreneurs, but w- salespeople at heart, and I think I then gravitated to that, those sort of opportunities that were quite, like, gritty and that you did get a bit dirty, and you did sort of, you could see the impact of your, of your work quite effectively rather than being maybe a cog.

Um, and so that really influenced me, and then subsequently, I think I kind of looked for those characteristics in terms of having environments that were quite diverse in terms of what I could do in that role.

Mm.