totally and look I stand

by that because you know what like right now I think oh my gosh it would be great if we had interest on student loans because it would pay off a lot of government debt and we could do a lot of things with that money but at the same time when you're a student and you're like staring down a barrel of like you know all this kind of study.

And, you know, I couldn't get any help from my mum and dad because of their wage, but I wasn't living at home.

I had all these bills.

An interest-free student loan was really something that was quite appealing.

So I voted for Labour based on that.

I still stand by that because at least I voted for something that I thought was going to be good for students and good for myself.

How did you come to champion this issue, AI deepfakes?

Do you have a view on that?

You're absolutely right.

Like banks, they do their own risk assessment.

They know that property, physical property is far more safer than a business.

Part of that as a business has been able to show that you've got stable financials and been able to prove that over a certain period of time.

But I've heard of businesses that are really stable over a 10-year period of time and they're still struggling to lend and they want the backing of your own property.

for example.

So if we look ahead to the next election, what do you think ACT's SME agenda needs to centre on? And what should small business owners be watching for?

That's way

too hard to have a crystal ball and look into.

Right.

So it'd be really hard to give any kind of advice on that.

I guess...

I guess it would just be a matter of checking the policies each election and what happens and how that rolls.

But if you look at it globally, the trend is governments, particularly left-wing governments, think the pie is fixed.

and the

They call

each other a non because by definition it's anonymous.

So how do you find these people? Look, that becomes way more challenging.

But what I've actually found in the cases of people that have come to me about being deepfaked into pornography, they actually often know the perpetrator.

And that is for two reasons.

That is because, one, their friends have been shared the images or they've been shared it and they've been able to track back who actually made it.

And two, quite often the person that's doing this wants to cause harm and embarrassment and it stems from cases of being rejected by somebody or they are just really jealous.

So what will the legislation actually achieve?

This image is a naked image of me, but it is not real.

This image is what we call a deepfake.

It took me less than five minutes to make a series of deepfakes of myself.

Scaringly, it was a quick Google search for the technology of what's available.

Hundreds of sites when you type in deepfake nudify into the Google search with your filter off.

Hundreds of sites appeared.

How have you found the select committee process so far? Any useful tips, improvements for the bill?

Yeah, look, it's just opened up really for submissions, and I've had, um, my first submission to the select committee.

What do you think it is?

Look, I think it's the unions, to be honest.

I think that the unions have whipped up a lot of false information and narratives around what a charter school does and Part of the issue is that the teachers at charter schools don't need to be unionized.

And it also means that schools can offer different courses and subject matters with not necessarily like registered teachers, for example.

I know one of the charter schools in Christchurch actually uses student teachers straight out of the teacher's college in Christchurch and pays them a really good wage.

They get all of the...

in classroom experience and training, but under our current legislation, and it's to do with the agreements the unions have with the Ministry of Education, that would not happen at a regular school.

So are you able to talk through that? What brought you to this bill? What made you aware of the problem or made you feel that there was a problem here?

How would your bill enforce punishment against deepfakes?

Yeah, good morning, Katie.

Nice to see you.

Look, my bill, it does two things.

It amends the Harmful Digital Communications Act and also the Crimes Act.

So what it does is it makes it explicitly clear in our legislation that to deepfake somebody into pornography without their consent is actually illegal as a starting point.

those that have found themselves victims of this crime would have the ability to access things like victim support they would get more support from the police to move forward with a potential prosecution and they'd be able to have like take down notices for example so really it's about strengthening our legislation to keep up with the times in this digital world that we're living in

How do you force a bot farm in the middle of nowhere from not targeting New Zealand? How difficult is that challenge?

Laura, is this just about removing iwi representation?

Absolutely not.

I think the difference between what Ricardo is describing and what has been happening at council level is actually the level of decision making is quite different.

And I think that it was a huge risk to our democracy to have unelected people appointed with voting rights to council.

And it's a huge one for democracy to see this rollback.

I would be open to a review, a wider review, because I do think that those that are elected to their roles should be the ones that ultimately make the decision with the advice of advisors, of course.

How though, Laura, do we ensure that there is representation of minorities if they don't yet make up enough of the population to vote people onto these boards?

I completely disregard that comment.

What do you think? Like, why this trip? Why now?

Look, I don't know.

And this is a question that's probably best directed towards the Chinese embassy.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think this trip was any different to any of the other trips that we've been on.

It is a long-standing tradition, actually, for New Zealand MPs to do this.

So I know that my colleagues in this particular term in Parliament, Cameron Luxon and Todd Stevenson, had both been with...

Yeah, with no drama around it.

It's always difficult to know what's going on in different nations' relationships with China, isn't it?

Surprise or were you expecting it?

Oh look, I am surprised.

It is unusual for New Zealand MPs to be sanctioned in this way.

Are you going to apologise? Absolutely not.

New Zealand MPs have visited Taiwan for many years under many different parties and it's completely consistent with New Zealand's One China policy and I think that this is an intimidation tactic so I will not be apologising.

Have you spoken to

Do you think that other MPs are in the future going to be put off going to Taiwan at the risk of this happening to them?

Look, I think that here is the intent, which I think is really disappointing, because Taiwan is an important economic and cultural partner for New Zealand.

to apologise?

Absolutely not.

You know, New Zealand MPs have visited Taiwan for many years under many different, you know, parties, and it's completely consistent with New Zealand's One China policy.

And I think that this is an intimidation tactic, so I will not be apologising.

Have you spoken to the others,

Do you think that other MPs are in the future going to be put off going to Taiwan at the risk of this happening to them?

Look, I think that here is the intent, which I think is really disappointing.

because Taiwan is an important economic and cultural partner for New Zealand.

Do you often vote for stuff that you don't agree with, but that you have to do quickly?

I wouldn't say that.

I'd say that there are times where we have to vote for things in the House that don't always align exactly with Acts philosophies.

It's being part of a coalition and a smaller party, of course that happens.

But this particular amendment did come up very quickly.

It meant that we had not a lot of time to consider the amendment, the way the wording was It also meant that the homeschooling community in particular didn't have any time to have a say, and we felt that was really undemocratic.

And parents, I mean, if you're homeschooling your kid, you're not a horrible person, which I think, is it fair to say that was kind of the view that the bill was taking?

Look, that was definitely how the homeschooling community felt.

Do you often vote for stuff that you don't agree with, but that you have to do quickly?

I wouldn't say that.

I'd say that there are times where we have to vote for things in the House that don't always align exactly with X philosophies.

It's being part of a coalition and a smaller party, of course, That happens, but this particular amendment did come up very quickly.

It meant that we had not a lot of time to consider the amendment, the way the wording was written.

It also meant that the homeschooling community in particular didn't have any time to have a say, and we felt that was really undemocratic.

And parents, I mean, if you're homeschooling your kid, you're not a horrible person, which I think, is it fair to say that was kind of the view that the bill was taking?

Look, that was definitely how the homeschooling community felt.