...and how you put all this into perspective.

Well, it was a long time.

Um, [laughs] you know, it's been six years, and it was a, it's a longer story about what led to the book.

It was very, um, unexpected, the opportun- I knew I would eventually write a book.

This is my eleventh book.

You know this, Martha.

I write, you know, I-- writing is one of my ways to heal and also to teach.

... to go through it.

Así que no puedo imaginar cómo te sentiste, cómo encontraste a Sam y cómo pusiste todo esto en perspectiva.

Bueno, ha pasado mucho tiempo, ya sabes, han pasado seis años, y es una historia más larga sobre lo que ha llevado al libro, fue muy inesperado, la oportunidad, sabía que eventualmente escribiría un libro, este es mi 11º libro, ya sabes, Martha, escribo, ya sabes, escribo.

Esa es una de mis formas de curarse y también de enseñar.

Pero muy pronto me di cuenta, al perder a él, de todo lo que sabía como terapeuta y alguien que entendía profundamente el grito y ayudaba a miles de personas a través de su propio grito.

Nada, como dijiste, era bueno, simplemente no funcionaba.

Todo lo que sabía como terapeuta no funcionaba para ayudarme a sostener el dolor de mi perdida de mi hijo.

Así que me profundicé mucho en la curación y empecé a darse cuenta de que la gente realmente no sabe cómo gritar y estaba buscando recursos que me ayudaran más allá de lo que ya sabía básicamente como terapeuta y no pude encontrarlo, así que este libro realmente es mi, no es solo mi historia, son todos los tipos de grito, este es un libro para todos los gritos, no importa quién has perdido o qué has perdido y hay muchas diferentes historias en el libro para demostrar lo que estoy diciendo, pero lo que estaba realmente faltando para mí fue el tipo de sanación que es necesaria para no solo poder llevar la pérdida profunda, sino para poder transformarla de una manera, porque la griega no se vuelve más pequeña, siempre queda la misma.

Escuchamos sobre las cinco etapas de la griega, la negación, la angustia,

And so take us through that entire journey.

Yeah, well, I mean, I'll be honest, it's hard to do both.

And I would say I eventually I went really hard at first with the advocacy, especially right after he died, because like I said, the news went viral and every show was calling me.

And I remember looking at my husband and being like, I can't even talk without bawling, much less do hair and makeup.

And he's like, who cares? If you're saving one life, just do it.

So that was my attitude.

I went on snotting and crying on every show imaginable because I kept thinking if I can save one family from this, if I can save one kid, it's worth it because if I, as such an educated and informed parent, didn't understand how insidious this is and how dangerous this is.

And did you see the signs of Sammy or how did you know that Sammy is still around? How do you communicate with him? And the specific somatics of the body, really understanding how the movement of the body can be really cathartic.

And then also the piece about how the message you got about going away.

Yeah.

Well, so Sammy was 16.

He was a junior in high school and we were sheltering at home in L.A. during the pandemic.

So I thought, cool.

I just told my girlfriend, like the silver lining is my two teenage boys.

It was Sammy.

from one time from one time.

Yeah.

How it came about.

Yes.

So, you know, I was skipping along in my career all these years.

And so I was probably, you know, this was five years ago in February, February 7, 2021, that my son passed.

So I was no stranger to grief at that point.

I had lost.

Because

Yeah.

No, you have to.

That's part of the healing.

You know, and I speak to that in crying out loud a lot around how to deal with all the feelings that come up, including anxiety, like the anger, the guilt and the fear, you know, because once the worst thing happens, you know the worst thing can happen, right? So I can start worrying about my other kids.

I can worry about my husband.

For me, the key has been two parts.

One has been really, most importantly, Because I don't even really, I didn't get into this in the book because it kind of was happening afterwards.

But then when you find out that somebody had something that clearly you could never like, it gives you that little sense of, well, I'm good

And so I'm wondering if you can think of a early loss, could be a death loss or not, and sort of your reaction, but perhaps more importantly, what were the reactions of the adults in your life, you know, explicitly or implicitly? And what do you think that taught you then about grief? And maybe what did that How did that serve you or not, maybe, when you had to face the death of your son? Yeah.

Yeah.

And by the time Sammy died, I was no stranger to grief.

By then, I'd been by both of my parents, held their hands as they took their last breath.

Both my grandmothers, dear friends, like many, many people I had lost.

And I'd ushered thousands of people through the most painful points of their lives, too.

But, you know, this was on a whole new level.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that.

And what you're talking about to a certain extent is a filter, but you're also talking about something else, which is what I call sort of the lens through which you view your life, right? So this could, if we're talking about in relationships, for instance, because this is a lot of what comes up in the couple's work I do.

If I decide that my husband is insensitive or careless or whatever story I'm coming up with, I'm going to find evidence for that everywhere I look.

So the lens, you're wearing a lens, and this is the same with our worldview.

There are these parameters, right? This is what I stand for.

This is what I choose as my lens.

I don't think we're going

Let's go.

OK.

So it was about a week and a half after Sammy died.

And I went to my place where very soon after he died, I went to the beach.

The beach was closed for COVID.

No one was there.

But I just snuck onto it because that's where I go to feel peace and to whatever.

know each other yet.

Let's go.

Okay.

So it was about a week and a half after Sammy died.

And I went to my place where very, very soon after he died, I went to the beach, the beach was closed for COVID.

No one was there, but I just snuck onto it.

Because that's where I go to feel peace and to whatever.

So I went there and I was literally just trying to breathe.

other yet.

So talk to us about what inspired you to write this book.

I don't know if you know this, but this is my 11th book.

But you know that I've had a long career as sex, love, relationship therapist, that, you know, that has always been my focus.

I obviously helped thousands of people throughout my career through the most painful points of their lives, and I was no stranger to supporting people through grief.

And I also, by the time my son died, Sammy, you know, I'd lost both my-- I'd been by both my parents' side when they died, I had been by both my grandmother's side.

You know, I was no stranger to grief and loss.

But on February 7th, 2021, my 16-year-old son, Sammy, was killed, murdered, essentially, through fentanyl poisoning.

Mm.

No, I think it's important to understand all of that because if that question's in the back of your mind as you're telling the story, it might interfere with what you're about to share.

Yeah, no.

Ask any question you want or that occurs.

But in our case, so...

A drug dealer had sent him this kid-friendly menu of, you know, one Percocet, a Xanax, whatever, you know, all these different things that he would send to the house or bring to the house.

You know, $2 for, you know, a Xanax or whatever.

So...

What was that? And was it a turning point? Huge, huge turning point.

And I'm curious, what did losing your son teach you that maybe 30 years of training never could?

Well, I had felt a lot of pain.

I mean, I've been through a lot of trauma.

My life also was very privileged in many ways.

So I'm not trying to pretend that I had it harder than a lot of people, but I had a lot of trauma.

And I had a lot of loss by the time my 16 year old son died.

But when he, I have never, I couldn't even tap into or imagine the degree of pain.

Something I imagine many grieving people struggle with, maybe not, but would be like guilt around feeling really good again.

... with the social media companies?

Um, oh, God.

I mean, I, it is, there are eight lobbyists, eight social media lobbyists for every lawmaker in Washington.

This is like fighting Goliath times 10.

Um, but you know, and people, I guess what I, what I think is important is that, you know, what you see in the news, that now Meta is being, you know, the judge ruled against Meta.

Meta is going to appeal the poop out of that.

They are gonna hold it up.

Mm-hmm

So Crying Out Loud, tell us about that title itself.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, people want grief to be quiet, you know, and I had always made it quiet before.

You know, I was always the one that kind of had it together.

And even though I would let myself feel, which I certainly did, you know, I tried to keep myself together for my kids and my community and whatever.

And when I lost Sammy, that was just impossible.

And what and I guess, you know, what happened or one of the many metaphysical things that happened is about a week after he died, you know, L.A.

So how do we loosen the grip on that and allow some of this energy to be moving and not be so afraid of it?

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmmAnd then you gotta save it for the next day, and the rest of the time it's about recon- and this is if both of you- Yeah ... wanna make the relationship work.

Which, yeah, let's just give a- You don't have to make the relationship work ... yeah, let's just make it clear.

We're not telling anybody who cheated on you- Yeah ... you have to stay.

Yeah, not at all.

I, I personally- I wouldn't stay ... yeah, and I don't think I would personally.

But by the way, I have told my husband if he cheated on me, I probably would stay.

I'm just wondering if there's any advice that you might have for someone who's struggling with a loss, and intimacy has become, um, has become a place of sorrow instead of closeness with your spouse.

What would you say?

Yeah.

I think that's such a great question.

A- and especially for her, because it sounds like she hasn't had sex in a while.

So here's what you have to understand happens starting in your usually mid-30s when you go into perimenopause, which can last five, seven, 10 years, however long until...

Menopause just means you haven't gotten a period for a year essentially, and you're no longer, you know, your estrogen levels are really low, and testosterone.

So let's just talk about what happens in perimenopause and menopause.

Hmm.

How do you even start? Like, where do you begin the healing journey?

Yeah.

Well, I didn't even, I mean, you know, I wasn't, I didn't know, like I literally, I was a therapist for 25 years at that point and had lost, I understand so deeply, you know, the pain of that loss, spell of prayer.

I'd lost, been holding my, both my parents' hands when they took their last breath.

By the time Sammy died, both of my grandmothers, I'd been by their side, a dear friend of mine.

So I was no stranger to grief.

I had also assured thousands of people throughout my career through the most painful points of their lives.

Is that something that you've researched and, you know, thought about, or is it Is there any validity to it?

So.

Well, in a way, I mean, I understand why they did that.

And ironically, that's one of the first things I'll do clinically.

Like if a couple comes in like that.

where it's become this huge 800-pound gorilla in the room with them.

Are we? Aren't we? I'm not going to reach out and hug and kiss you because you might think I'm trying to start something and I'm going to have to say no.

I'm not going to reach out and hug and kiss you because you're just going to reject me.

Not that we recommend

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmmAnd then you gotta save it for the next day, and the rest of the time it's about recon- and this is if both of you- Yeah ... wanna make the relationship work.

Which yeah, let's just give a- You don't have to make the relationship work ... yeah, let's just make it clear.

We're not telling anybody who cheated on you- Yeah ... you have to stay.

Yeah, not at all.

I, I personally- I wouldn't stay ... yeah, and I don't think I would personally.

But by the way, I have told my husband if he cheated on me, I probably would stay.

I'm just wondering if there's any advice that you might have for someone who's struggling with a loss and intimacy has become, um, has become a place of sorrow instead of closeness with your spouse.

Teniendo una relación conmigo misma es cuando puedo llenar mi propio tanque, cultivar esos sentimientos en mí misma y sanar esas heridas e historias anteriores que la mayoría de nosotros adoptamos solo como un medio para sobrevivir a nuestra infancia.

E inconscientemente, cualesquiera que sean esas heridas, son el lado sombrío del don y el sentimiento que más quieres sentir.

Así que hay una historia que tienes de que no puedes tenerlo, que no lo mereces o que no puedes crearlo o que no es posible.

Y ahí es donde ocurre la curación.

Creo que para conseguir lo que quieres del amor, ya sea llamando al amor o, eh, creando el amor que quieres en la relación que tienes, no empiezas con entender lo que quieres conductualmente o incluso cómo quieres que se muestre tu pareja.

Siempre se reduce a cómo quieres sentirte.

¿Cómo ha podido ocurrir? ¿Por qué dejaste que pasara? ¿Por qué ocurre esto?

Así es.

our rage, numbing our grief, then we're also numbing our pleasure, numbing our ecstasy.

And they play with each other.

Anger is the bodyguard of sadness often.

So if you allow yourself to move your anger, know that there's going to be some sadness that's like, oh, good, now I can come out.

So what happened with me is five years ago, on February 7th, 2021, my 16-year-old son, my middle son, Sammy, died.

he was killed by accidental fentanyl poisoning.

We were sheltering at home during the pandemic.

you want to pull your rage and your sorrow? And they're like, no

Can you talk more about that?

Yeah, so that was my last book, Quantum Love, and what you're referring to is the Quantum Love Map.

So this was based on all kinds of studies, and the one that was probably the most well-known is David Hawkins, you know, Power Versus Force.

Basically, they were able to go around...

the world with a million different disciplines, so many different disciplines, and analyze using psychological tests, written things, kinesiology, muscle testing, they were able to calibrate the energetic frequency of different emotional states.

And what we know, and this is, you know, from quantum physics, is that we're all pure energy, right? So if we were to look at ourselves through an atomic microscope, you and I aren't solid.

We're pure vibrating energy and we're not separate from each other.

So can you talk about that?

But is there any positivity to porn? You know?

Well, so this is interesting, even for me, because I've been doing this for 30 years.

And until Pornhub went free, if you asked me this question unequivocally, I would say, you know what? There is definitely a place for porn in a healthy relationship.

I am not anti-porn.

I think it can be used as long as it's not replacing sex or getting in the way of sex.

You know, keeping in mind that it's not really a reasonable expression of what pleases a woman and what bodies look like and all of those.

It's not a good sex education.

Why did you write Sex Magic? Where did this come from? Why another book? You know, what like what moved you to do it? And what do you want? What what person like what are they going to get from this book that you hope that they get from?

Is this a correct term?

Well, there is there is truth to what you're saying, but not for the reason I think that you're saying, because hormonally, you know, starting in our mid 30s, things are really getting, you know, so we're not as hormonally supported for wanting sex.

in our mid-30s and beyond as we were in our 20s.

So for instance, a woman in her 60s has half the testosterone, which is that hormone of desire that a woman in her 20s has, and it's slowly declining throughout our lifespan so that by the mid to late 30s, and especially if she's on hormonal contraceptives, which bind up even more testosterone and keep it from being available for the body to use, she's often physiologically not prone to be horny.

However, emotionally and intellectually, she has been through some shit.

She knows more who she is.

She's more comfortable in her body.

Is this where we're heading?