How first couple of times you picked up a camera, like where'd that all start? How'd you get into it? How'd you learn? Did you go to school for it? Was this something you just learned by doing?

Yeah, I just learned by doing it.

I learned when I was going to those races and autocrosses and the events that my friends and I would actually go to, I would always bring my camera.

And even if I was driving that same event, I would still take pictures or video or whatever.

I would just shoot media because I found that even if we were there and this happens still today even if i'm there at a show or a race and i'm i'm actually living the moment people always come up to me and tell me oh i can't wait to see your pictures i'm like listen we're here now enjoying the event why do you want to see it after the fact you know through my pictures but I realized that it was a novelty and it was also like a cool thing to, to see your own car in somebody else's through somebody else's eyes.

And I just kind of ran with it.

And for the longest time, it took quite a long time for me to get to a point where I even broke even by taking pictures or, or doing media.

And it's like, yeah, but they don't have to be a dick.

well you're keeping up with the world's best drivers as you're honing in your driving yeah i guess you're gonna get really good really quick

so then last year i got my competition license and i've been taking as many green flags as i can i think up until this point um i've taken I hit 20 green flags with wheel-to-wheel racing.

I did a 14-hour endurance race at Road Atlanta this year.

We ended up third place, which was awesome.

What kind of car were you? It was a Mini Cooper.

Okay.

Yeah, it was so much fun.

Okay.