yeah and then I came back from this trip went to the supermarket and was like what can I even buy do you know what I mean like everything is wrapped in plastic everything but I wonder like how do you have an experience like that and then turn it into what you're doing now like what was the first step oh So

what was the first step? That's a really good question.

I've been a campaigner for a long time, but I've moved through lots of different issues.

And I think that... all of them are so interconnected in my mind and in my heart as well that it feels really seamless.

And I think the beginning of this stage of my journey in terms of the food systems, trade justice, climate justice kind of connectivity was really when I started to focus in on the Caribbean and my research.

because so the starting point of my work is kind of the idea of education as freedom, which essentially is thinking about the ways that the things we learn and the environments we learn in, how that shapes our sense of agency, like I'm really big on agency and campaigning.

This will all loop around, I promise.

And are there any sort of stories you've learned or that you could share around the people growing our food?