What was your kind of introduction to, you know, punk, hardcore, independent music, all that sort of stuff in a city that is obviously not known to be a hotbed for that?

You know, I started hanging out with more of the punk rock kids at high school, in the sophomore year, junior year of high school.

And me and my brother had played guitar for a long time, and...

We were both like little metal heads into like, you know, Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer, all that kind of stuff.

And I became friends with a couple kids who were like, hey, do you want to go to a punk rock show? I'm like, I don't even know what that is.

And they're like, you know, local skate park has punk rock shows.

And I remember going to the first show and I was like just floored because I was like, these are kids my age.

You know, was it like that sort of one by one sort of pulling away from it? Or how did that transpire?