This is interesting." What did you make of that second album when it happened?

happened?I think it was scary for a lot of people because especially in the '90s, we one-dimensionalized a lot of people.

We put them in a box.

They really couldn't venture outside.

And with Jagged Little Pill, she was labeled the angry, angry white woman, like even on Rolling Stone.

And the, the album itself is not angry.

You Oughta Know is angry, but she always says it's more about sadness, and she just needed to get the ex- feelings out.

Like, what, what, what's the rest, what is, what does the rest of your life look like?

Mm-hmm.

And then when I was 30, I went into broadcasting 'cause I had a, always had a passion for that, and I actually interviewed Hoda Kotb during my freelancing days and wrote a book called 10 Years Later, where people sort of transition to new careers or just lives, not based on trauma or something, like, major happening, be- because they had a passion that was unfulfilled.

And I told her I felt like she was speaking to me with broadcasting, and she sort of gave me the push to go for it, 'cause I felt at 30 I was too old to start over, but you're never too old.

So I started networking and landed in local TV in the DC area, and so for the past 10 years, I was doing morning shows, so those 3:00 AM wake-ups and reporting on all politics and crime in DC and the hard news stuff, but my favorite part was the lifestyle stuff.

So I was always in charge of, like, the 9:00 or 10:00 AM hour, which if you think about Today Show or GMA, it lightens up, so you get the news you need, and then we have, you know, fun, comedy, food, drink, music, that type of stuff.

And I started my podcast basically because after the election, I didn't wanna go through it again.

It was just wearing on me, the grind of morning news and the hours.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I feel like everyone's in an open relationship now.

Most people that I know are, if they're gay.

I think in a way it's something that the gay community has kind of mastered because a lot of people do make it work.

I think we're seeing some of the trickle effects right now because you're able to see people getting divorced now.

But...

As far as making it work, most couples that I do know that have been together many, many years who are open seem to have worked out the kinks.

I think the thing that didn't work or that I would probably have the most trouble with is when you're in an open relationship that is emotional.

Hmm.