Okay

... on why do I need a CMO, and her argument is that all the stuff we're talking about, narrative and demand and brand, it, are all very tactical things and reactive.

It feels reactive, right? It's, it's...

Now, there's some proactivity there, but her argument is the marketing has always been central to everything going on at the company, pre- and post-sales.

We are the tip of the spear, and we're trying to retain and expand customers.

Marketing should be, the CMO should be the one front and center on running and aligning, maybe not running, but aligning go to market.

'Cause you have product marketing, which is central.

[laughs]

Um, life's too short to work for a bad boss.

Yeah.

I, I really think a lot of times when, when ...

It really depends on why somebody's trying to do that.

Like, a lot of times they're moved under sales for efficiency reasons, when no- nobody really understands what actually they're trying to measure.

Is it customer acquisition costs? Is it ...

Like, sales and marketing is one line item to the CFO.

Uh, is that, is that important for the modern strategic CMO? Have you done it?

They love the event.

We took care of them.

They trust us as a company.

Lessonly, in this age, would get eaten alive.

Our software did not have a moat.

It was really simple to use.

You could probably vibe code it now in a weekend, right? You could.

The other side of the argument is, "Hey, SaaS era marketers, there was a time where you were allowed to invest in brand, and what are the great SaaS era brands that you built? Um, and so maybe, maybe you're better at this thing, and let's focus on the thing you're really good at." What are your thoughts on this tension that exists in the space? Do you feel it? Do you see it? Do you hear it when you're talking to other marketers?