And I know from talking to you earlier that you're already doing work to promote an appreciation of wine, an understanding of wine and the work that you do to fellow people of colour where they may not have the same access and heritage with wine.

Yeah, so it's a small project.

It's not that big yet, but I think the vision is there.

So the whole idea is that we're starting a wine group and it's really to explain, but to get more people of color into wine, into drinking wine, understanding the culture of wine and really how fun it is to understand how the wine works different cultivars different styles different regions there's so many you know there's such a big i want to say library of of wines that you can delve into that i really want to get you know the regular consumers or even the people that don't know anything about wine to get them into wine and and kind of getting passionate about wine try to explain that it's more than just it's more than it's just you know i think some people associate the wine with drinking which is you know obviously a bad um light on the wine but there's more to it than just drinking is tastings you can you know quality and styles and cultivars like i said that's there's so much more we can really build a culture and i'm trying to get people of color but anyone it doesn't have to be people of color just to get into it because i think once you get into it and you start understanding how it works like myself what happened with myself was like once you get into it i believe we can really grow the the the market but also the culture is what important that we need to grow because we're losing it a bit which is sad but i think i always say it's our responsibility as not just winemakers but wine enthusiasts to to put it out there and explain to people and welcome them in.

Because from the outside, it can be a bit overwhelming or maybe a bit frightening for other people that don't know anything about wine to be like, I don't think I can understand anything about wine because there's a lot of lingo and talk around it.

I think it's our responsibility, my responsibility, our responsibility, it doesn't matter, to really bring those people in and say, listen, it's fine.

I'm here too.

Is your sense that things are, as a person of colour, that things are changing for the better?

And I know from talking to you earlier that you're already doing work to promote an appreciation of wine, an understanding of wine and the work that you do to fellow people of colour where they may not have the same access and heritage with wine.

Yeah, so it's a small project.

It's not that big yet, but I think the vision is there.

So the whole idea is that we're starting a wine group, and it's really to explain, but to get more people of color into wine, into drinking wine, understanding the culture of wine, and really how fun it is to understand wine.

how the wine works, different cultivars, different styles, different regions.

There's so many, you know, there's such a big, I want to say, library of wines that you can delve into that I really want to get, you know, the regular consumers or even the people that don't know anything about wine to get them into wine.

and and kind of getting passionate about wine try to explain that it's more than just it's more than it's just you know i think some people associate the wine with drinking which is you know obviously a bad light on the wine but there's more to it than just drinking is tastings you can you know quality and styles and cultivars like i said that's there's so much more we can really build a culture and i'm trying to get people of color but anyone it doesn't have to be people of color just to get into it because i think once you get into it and you start understanding how it works like myself what happened with myself was like once you get into it i believe we can really grow the the the the market but also the culture is what important that we need to grow because we're losing it a bit which is sad but i think i always say it's our responsibility as not just winemakers but wine enthusiasts to to put it out there and explain to people and welcome them in.

Is your sense that things are, as a person of colour, that things are changing for the better?