But can you help us understand what imposter syndrome is? Because some people might be feeling it, and they don't realize they are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, it's interesting.

I, I don't hear a lot of people who have never felt it, so I, like I'm, I'm rejoicing in my head.

Way to go.

Like, I'm super happy for you.

What does that look like so that you can hold a mirror up to someone who may not realize that that's what they're doing? And the second part of it is, how do they make space for reflection? Because some people might think that, "Oh my gosh, that's one more thing I have to do today."

... were not attended and things like that.

Yeah, that's a good question.

I, every state was different.

I think my trauma of that time has blocked out some of this in my memory, but I don't think Iowa was a state that required any closings.

They did have a lot of requirements in terms of how many people could be in a space, social distancing, masks, that kind of stuff.

You know, I do remember, like, we did take some time, uh, you know, in the beginning, like we were all just trying to do the best we could, and we did have a, I think it was a couple months that we did all online where, you know, those of us that were preaching and presenting would be in person live streaming, but there wouldn't be anybody present physically in the space.

Part of that anxiety was a, just a constant like, what do we do? Nobody had been there before.

What was it that you didn't find appealing, or you felt this is the reason this environment is not for Kurt?

outside of mine, right?

Yeah.

No, that's good.

One value for me is feedback is important and honesty and authenticity is important.

So thanks for creating the space for that.

So my, I mentioned before, I helped launch a second campus of the church.

We launched this campus on January 1st of 2020, which I don't know if you remember 2020.

But what were those pressures that you were under that had you act the way you did?

weather you can be alone for like six months and so you learn to just oh my gosh not talk to anyone because you're snowed in in the old days you know like 200 years ago so i don't know if that's the case um with why they're so stoic and and kind of reserved and quiet um but i i think the dutch people are also known for being stoic as well like um a little more reserved is that true

I mean, I think the like Dutch reform circles.

Yes.

I mean, not to get all nerdy.

I could get nerdy.

But the history is like the Netherlands was kind of wild and crazy.

And then Dutch people came to America.

I accept.

I accept.

Okay, great.

So I don't know, 2006-ish, my wife and I, my wife and I got married in 2006.

2006-ish, we found a church plant that had just begun in a community we didn't live in.

We just moved to a community and we like walked into this church plant and loved it.

We fell in love.

We made some connections right away.

yeah wow

[laughs]

Uh, no, it's, it's not dumb.

It was just a, it was just a huge life change.

Uh, I, I went to seminary in my 30s.

Uh, there's a, there's a, another story for another time.

I didn't have a bachelor's degree.

Uh, the seminary I went to had some, uh, some processes where they allowed students to come in, non-tradit- nontraditional students to come in, uh, and get their, their MDiv.

[laughs]

How'd you get there?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I worked in a manufacturing plant for about 10 years and I started really young.

I started at the ground floor in this plant.

I was like 21, just coming in, no idea what I was doing.

And I got some really great opportunities really early on to be around some people who invested in me early on in my life.

And I found myself in some leadership roles in that plant that I probably didn't have any business being in.

But do you make time even in the heat of the moment to make sure that you're thinking clearly to reflect appropriately for the situation?

So, so how do we, how do we avoid this as, as entrepreneurs and leaders?

Yeah.

I love how you say that.

I mean, in our coaching practice, we always say like, the answer is never try harder.

Right.

because if the answer was try harder we'd already be doing it we're already trying like we're all trying the best we can i think there's two pieces of advice uh that i that i think of in my own life the first are counter systems so if if the system that's draining my energy uh i'll go back to my accounting example i i hate tax time and i know that that is going to drain more energy than normal.

So I know in that time when my energy is getting drained above average levels, I need a counter system that's going to give me more energy at the same rate that it's going away.

Why is it that we, as entrepreneurs, have the tendency to do that?

Yes, 100%.

Yeah.

So, so we think most of, most of these things that keep us stuck in old ways of being, or most of the things that keep us showing up in ways we don't prefer, are rooted in, uh, in what, what, what's called our first formation.

Moments that we would say little T trauma happened, where maybe we feel embarrassed or we feel pain, or we get laughed at, or we get left behind, or whatever it is, those moments create, create wounds.

They create little markers in time where our nervous system-

And if one of our viewers or one of the, part of the audience wanted to get in contact with you, what would be the best way to go about that?

Yeah, our website's the best way.

BrimstoneCoachingGroup.com.

So what are you seeing with some of the leaders that you're working with? What's feeling most challenging or where are they? Why are they coming to you?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Kim, you know, when we started, so I have a partner, I have a business partner.

He's one of my best friends.

So I tend to say we and forget that I'm the only one on the screen.

Yeah.

So when I say we, that's who I'm talking about.

Like, how do you navigate that? Being the person whose job is to support other people in a world that feels so deceiving.