So I would love to hear just the experience first of all, and then down the line, what that taught you about audience growth and audience development.

When I got recruited from HubSpot, they had their podcast network, was relatively new, and they didn't have anybody kind of leading the production team and the editorial team.

There was kind of people working all over, and they needed someone to come in and organize it and scale it.

So I'll give you a little bit of brief background.

And so everybody is familiar with HubSpot, the tech company.

It's a software.

It's a SaaS company.

um that's not to forget the the audio experience of the shows however i do think there's an important conversation to be had about video and youtube first packaging these days because for a new podcast to to be discovered you you need to think video first and youtube first in your packaging your titles and thumbnails so i'd love to hear from all of your experience what you've learned about great packaging um to to discover shows