... of potential symptoms? Yeah.

So, um, fortunately, in our country, um, independent of current administrations and things, um, schools...

So there, there is an American Disabilities Act, um, and we do have IDEA, is another acronym, um, where if a parent...

And this is where the 504 plan that I referenced, or IEP, comes up.

If you think there is something going on, you can actually say, "Hey, I think my child...

I think my son needs an evaluation." And you literally, as a parent, you could write it on a napkin, you hand it in, you have asserted your agency that your son should be able to receive a neuropsychological evaluation.

So, if your school receives public funding, you can get a neuropsychological, neuroeducational evaluation.

Mm-hmm.

So, Dr. Simon, basically all the students answered with what seems to be different versions of, "Being a man means being strong." But the way we socialize boys, to them, strength means self-negation.

Right.

So, to bring it back to clinical work, all the words that you just heard the young men describe, that they have to be, quote-unquote, "stoic," "I can't show emotion," or, "If I do show emotion, it has to be of the aggressive type," the young men that I engage with, a lot of times, there is a significant lag between we start engaging and then they trust and then they open up, but then they fully recognize opening up in the session can only occur in the session, because they know, "When I go back out in the community, I can't be who I am in this space." Which is a very interesting space for me to be in, 'cause I'm trying to help them to understand, no, actually, sometimes showing vulnerability is actually the strength that you should have.

But do you, Dr. Simon, have a recollection of when you first were aware of that?

Yeah, and I... actually, I'll get personal here.

So, I have a son.

He'll be four in May, and it's not uncommon that he cries, and despite what I do, who I see, who I treat, there was a time where I caught my own self wanting to say, "KJ, don't cry." I didn't, and I ended up saying, "KJ, it's okay." Tears came...

you know, came down, um, but even for myself, and I have a older daughter, but I had the quick reaction of wanting to say, "Don't cry," right? And so I bring that up in- insofar as it is so ingrained within our society, right? It's such a part of who we are that even, yes, we have to slow down and say, "Wait a minute.

... of potential symptoms? Yeah.

So, um, fortunately, in our country, um, independent of current administrations and things, um, schools, so there, there is an American Disabilities Act.

Um, and we do have IDEA, is another acronym, um, where if a parent, and this is where the 504 plan that I referenced, or IEP comes up.

If you think there is something going on, you can actually say, "Hey, I think my child, I think my son needs an evaluation." And you literally, as a parent, you could write it on a napkin, you hand it in, you have asserted your agency that your son should be able to receive a neuropsychological evaluation.

So if your school receives public funding, you can get a neuropsychological, neuroeducational evaluation.

If your school receives public funding.

If you are in a school that does not receive public funding, that school has the capacity to do the things that it wants to do, not sometimes with the obligation, uh, that is federally mandated.

Mm-hmm.

So, Dr. Simon, basically all the students answered with what seems to be different versions of, "Being a man means being strong." But the way we socialize boys, to them, strength means self-negation.

Right.

So, to bring it back to clinical work, all the words that you just heard the young men describe, that they have to be, quote/unquote, "stoic," "I can't show emotion," or, "If I do show emotion, it has to be of the aggressive type," the young men that I engage with, a lot of times, there is a significant lag between we start engaging and then they trust and then they open up, but then they fully recognize opening up in the session can only occur in the session because they know, "When I go back out in the community, I can't be who I am in this space." Which is a very interesting space for me to be in 'cause I'm trying to help them to understand, no, actually sometimes showing vulnerability is actually the s- strength that you should have.

but do you, Dr. Simon have a recollection of when you first were aware of that?

Yeah, and ac- actually I'll get personal here.

So, I have a son, he'll be four in May, and it's not uncommon that he cries.

And despite what I do, who I see, who I treat, there was a time where I caught my own self wanting to say, "KJ, don't cry." I didn't, and I ended up saying, "KJ, it's okay." Tears came, you know, came down, um, but even for myself, and I have a older daughter, but I had the quick reaction of wanting to say, "Don't cry," right? And so I bring that up in- insomuch as it is so ingrained within our society, right?