Exactly.

So what we've been doing to try and create that space is...

when we go into work with organisations, we're not just talking to leaders about how they think about engaging their staff with change.

We're talking to staff about how they show up.

We hold sessions with staff to say, you know what, each and every single one of you is responsible for how you respond to change, right? And yes, there are external factors to you, but There are also things that you can control that can help give you choice and can help you work with the people around you.

Sometimes you're going to come into conflict, but that doesn't mean you should fall out over it.

You should have healthy ways to kind of uncover what people are keeping in their head, thinking about what they think is going to happen and just trust one another a little bit more to have honest conversations.

And yet they're there having to roll it out to the wider team.