What were your, some of your best experiences working in these companies, and how well did they set you up to move into board roles?

I think, um, you can probably get a hint from the names of the organizations that they were, as I say, big, dirty industrial companies.

Um, not surprising, I guess, for an engineer straight out of uni.

But, uh, that did mean they were heavily male-dominated, so, uh, I guess I was always used to having to speak up, um, to be heard and maybe having to speak up again and again and again.

Certainly, yeah, I think that probably put me in good stead for then moving on into a, a board career some years later.

Uh, my time at James Hardie, um, I often say I was there in the years before they lost their way rather spectacularly.

Um, but I did have some wonderful, uh, development opportunities there, and a, a key, uh, turning point for me, I think, was, uh, I had the opportunity to move into a sales and marketing management role, uh, essentially with almost no background other than a bit of study.

Firstly, can you tell us the story of how you came to be appointed to the board?