How do you approach it? How do you think about the different channels available?

Yeah, you know, well, first, we've got a great in-house marketing team, and I've had the same marketing director for 12 years, Nicole Cerullo.

She's awesome.

She's just terrific.

We've got, you know, two other in-house people.

That has been a huge help because, you know, like your company, I mean, there's so many great vendors out there, but it is nice if you can find the right roles where people are just dedicated and only working on you know your brand your firm you know again it's something else that's evolving at warp speed you know we all saw what happened the yellow pages and when they disappeared and that used to be a big part of our world you know sitting down with that bell cipher up every year felt like you had a gun to your head like you don't do this double truck somebody else is or you don't get the back cover you know joe schmoe's got it and like all right uh let's do it it's still a role for t&e I'm amazed, Chris, that I'm saying that in 2026, because I don't remember the last time that I watched broadcast TV.

But, you know, we've done some, you know, we've gone dark for different times and we have seen.

As we wrapped up, I asked Ken how a massive, expanding firm maintains its edge in complex litigation, and he shared the ultimate North Star that guides every decision they make.