... forge- forging the path?

I mean, I can come up with some more nefarious possibilities, um, especially when you're talking about billionaires with investments all over the planet.

But, um, [laughs] um, but y- yeah, just in the, in the, in the, um, taking it at face value, if you really, um...

Y- it is interesting that like, as I put in the piece and in other places, that the United States has dramatically reduced our CO2 emissions since 2006, and China has dramatically ramped up theirs.

Our success is largely because we've been switching from coal to natural gas and power generation.

If these groups, these anti-energy groups as I call them, and their donors really cared about reducing carbon emissions, if that was, you know, and we can debate how important that is, but assume that the world is going to boil away if we don't cut carbon emissions dramatically.

The way to have done that in China is to help them get lots of natural gas.

Um, and tell us a little bit about that.

... forge- forging the path.

I mean, I can come up with some more nefarious possibilities, um, especially when you're talking about billionaires with investments all over the planet.

But, um, [laughs] um, but y- yeah, just in the, in the, in the, um, taking it at face value, if you really, um...

Y- it is interesting that like, as I put in the piece and in other places, that the United States has dramatically reduced our CO2 emissions since 2006, and China has dramatically ramped up theirs.

Our success is largely because we've been switching from coal to natural gas and power generation.

If these groups, these anti-energy groups as I call them, and their donors really cared about reducing carbon emissions, if that was, you know, and we can debate how important that is, but assume that the world is going to boil away if we don't cut carbon emissions dramatically.

The way to have done that in China is to help them get lots of natural gas.

Um, and tell us a little bit about that.

It's the classic NIMBY, you know, you can in theory do X, but not anywhere here.

Yeah, yeah.

And as we put in the report and is in the report that's coming out tomorrow, updating the list of anti-nuclear opponents that they've been, you know, they're They're on their, you know, what their distinction is.

And then is there anybody who's managed to get themselves off the list? Interestingly, just this spring, last time we did this list and every time before that and going back decades, the Natural Resources Defense Council earned a...

high top five usually spot on the list for being pretty strikingly anti-nuclear.

As recently as 2021, they opposed or they were in favor of shutting down the Indian Point nuclear power station that was, I think, giving 30 to 40 percent of New York City's electricity.

But in March, they narrowly supported reopening a nuclear power plant in Iowa named the Duane Arnold Electricity Center.

Yeah, so, you know, as we look at this anti-nuclear movement, would you say it's gaining influence, losing influence, being ignored more and more, being listened to more and more

So is that what you're talking about? Is that what you're suggesting, that this is actually just an ideological push, and the, the facade is this environmental concern?

So my 10 myths, uh, could have easily been 15.

Number 10 was plastic pollution and how, you know, the United States and all of the rich Western nations that can afford w- the ways to throw away plastic do so in engineered landfills.

It doesn't land in the ocean.

These groups have been over the...

The reason I put that in there is because a lot of these groups over the last few years have, as their support on the anti-energy front has begun to collapse, they've begun attacking plastic, which is made from petroleum and, and gas.

So that is kind of a proxy for doing what they've been doing all along, which is trying to stop economic growth.

So sort of in, in closing, if you could give our listeners sort of one or two or maybe three biggest takeaways that they should take from this report that might be things they might not already know, what would you t- what would you tell them?