So what drew you as a researcher to this topic, this place, this project?

Yeah, well, it's very special to me, this place.

And I first came across it when we were researching for the previous work on life in vacant spaces.

And we were, my colleague Graydon Diprose and myself were walking around inner city Christchurch, visiting all the temporary activations that have been enabled by life in vacant spaces for a previous project.

And as we just sort of heard about this urban farm, so we thought, oh, we'll walk by and have a look.

And then we walked by, and it was just such this beautiful kind of oasis of vegetables in the city, just rows and rows of greens.

And it wasn't a very nice day.

Now, for all our colleagues listening to us today, how can this collective subjuvation transform our research, can transform our teaching, but also challenge us a bit when we talk about social change.

So can you tell me a little bit about that tension? I'm always interested in it and how that tension manifests.

I mean, that was one of the key framings of the paper, mainly because of the special issue.

And so I was responding to a special issue call that seemed to be saying that communities and care were in contradiction with each other somehow.

And I felt like.

there is a tension, but they're not in contradiction.

There's something happening there.

And so I think of tension as two things pulling in opposition, but that's good, right? Two things pulling in opposition is what holds up whatever, you know, the washing line, for example, is if there's no tension in your washing line or your washing is going to be dragging on the ground.

So how important are these decisions to deplete, to maintain or grow the commons, and how are these ethical ethical negotiations organized or framed