So then where do business officers fit into this conversation, in your view?

Part of the work we've been doing is really trying to make sure we do a better job of showing how they can fit.

And with the hub in particular, we were doing research to really understand first what business officers were telling us that they needed to support that.

Where did they see that there was a issue of being able to have these conversations on campus, but also to be a part of a larger team to really support this work? And so part of our effort has been, how do we educate you on first, what is student success? And tying it back to your strategic priorities, some of it is as basic as, how are we defining it? What does it look like for our campus community? And now how do we think about the funding of it? How do we examine the various different layers of our resource allocation, our budgeting practices to ensure that we holistically have an understanding? And that means bringing together teams to have a different level of conversation, but also making sure that the business officer has a seat at the table prior to us engaging in some of these efforts.

So that way they truly understand.

And part of what we've been doing in the last year and a half is having these various different opportunities of engaging with campuses to really teach them that strategy, that new approach to engaging in these types of collaborations, but also to how to use resources to further those efforts.

And so that was really the catalyst for us in reaching out and having some conversations.

Absolutely.