Um, did, did you feel like you, you, you hit on something? And I know Zach asked you a version of this question where he said, "Were you worried that you were gonna get, you know, get a book deal?" Um, whatever you want to say what I just rambled on about.

Well, I was confident in this story idea.

Uh, again, you know, for the last 50 years, we've been telling the Larry Bird story one way, always one way.

We always weave together the stories of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, and listen, I get it, why we do that.

You know, as a sports fan, I understand it.

You know, they, they, uh, you know, of course, do play in that epic championship game in March 1979, the last college basketball game the two of them will ever play.

50 million people watching, most watched college basketball game of all time.

Hmm.

Indiana University, IU, the holy grail of college basketball, hates it, and I want you to get, I want to put a pin in that 'cause I wanna get back to it, and hitchhikes home and then, like, vanishes.

Yeah.

Well, we will come back to that.

I, I was just saying, like, he, he nearly disappears that winter, right? Uh, it- it's not just that he drops out and he, uh, you know, works on a garbage truck for a while.

He nearly disappears that winter, forever.

You know, Bird is telling everybody, "I'm not going back to college." And one thing I learned about Bird in the writing of this book is he, he only says what he means.

That's it.

I think we all have those stories.

What do you think?

Well, you know, I spent a lot of time in in rural Indiana for this book.

a lot of time in the two little towns where Byrd grew up.

It wasn't just French Lick.

It was also a place called West Baden Springs, which is a little town that's contiguous to French Lick.

Throughout his childhood, Byrd moved back and forth between West Baden and French Lick as his parents struggled.

Multiple houses, multiple moves.

in that big game how they got to the final four how they got to face each other and what was the difference in the dynamic in that championship game because it could have gone either way

What do you think?

Well, you know, I spent a lot of time in in rural Indiana for this book.

a lot of time in the two little towns where Byrd grew up.

It wasn't just French Lick.

It was also a place called West Baden Springs, which is a little town that's contiguous to French Lick.

Throughout his childhood, Byrd moved back and forth between West Baden and French Lick as his parents struggled.

Multiple houses, multiple moves.

How did they got to the final four? How they got to face each other? And what was the difference in the dynamic in that championship game? Because it could have gone either way.

The team had already was f- pretty stacked, but what was Bill Hodges' pitch for Larry Bird to play for Indiana State?

Well, you know, one thing that I think's important to know is when Larry was in high school, he wasn't dreaming of playing college basketball.

He wasn't dreaming of going to the NBA.

You know, he really just wanted to be as good as his older brother Mark had been, and Mark had been a really good player for Springs Valley High School.

Uh, and so, you know, this dream to go to Indiana and play for Bobby Knight, it's not really Larry's dream.

You know, it's everybody else's.

And, and as he'll say later, you know, when he left and, and hitchhiked home to French Lick, he didn't understand why other people were disappointed in him.

Mm-hmm.

What, what should we know about Joey Bird?

You know, Joey was a present father in the life of Larry Bird, but he did have struggles.

Uh, he struggled to stay employed.

He struggled with drinking.

Based on my reporting, those struggles really do date back to the Korean War.

And in the winter of 1950, 1951, Joey Bird is in the thick of the fight.

Joey Bird sees and maybe does terrible things that winter.

What did he say?

how Larry

Bird became Larry Bird.

And you're right, there are all these twists and turns.

And one of them certainly is that moment with Bobby Knight.

Sports fans will know Bird was a big star at Springs Valley High School in French Lick, Indiana.

He's recruited by a handful of Midwestern schools, signs with Bobby Knight at Indiana, and lasts all of three weeks on campus in the late summer of 74.

And I pinpointed the exact day when Bird leaves.

literally, Keith, he was, am I correct in saying he was working on a garbage truck?

Just a little more color on that.

Yeah, sure.

So I did a lot of work actually to try to render Larry's father, Joey Bird, in, in, in three dimensions on the pages of the book because, you know, over the years, you know, it's, it's sort of a one-off.

It's a, it's a line.

It's a, it's a, it's a moment that's rarely explored.

And so, you know, I, I, I spent a lot of time in French Lick getting to know people who knew Joey Bird.

That was number one.

Is this strictly because Bobby Knight's an asshole and, and Larry Bird doesn't wanna play for Bobby Knight? Was that pretty much what happened there?

I mean, those, that's, it's like a miracle team when you think about it, and I just would love to know in your opinion, what are the comps to teams today?

So, you know, the '78, '79 season, that's the miracle year, right? The year before was the year that people thought something might happen.

Uh, Larry Bird appears on the cover of Sports Illustrated in November of '77, his first, uh, Sports Illustrated cover.

It's an iconic cover.

Uh, almost 50 years later, people know this cover.

Uh, and, and they're ranked, uh, Indiana State is, in preseason polls, and they flame out They flame out.

They start out thirteen and O, they hit a rough patch, they can't get out of it, they're not a real team, they don't really get along.

How do you think a Larry Bird of today manages the storm of social media, of nonstop attention? Does Larry Bird have a chance to become Larry Bird under circumstances like today?

I mean, as someone that loves vintage basketball, I've watched tons and tons of clips, and you're right, I mean, those, it's, it's, like, a miracle team when you think about it, and I just would love to know, in your opinion, what are the comps to teams today?

So, you know, the '78, '79 season, that's the miracle year, right? The year before was the year that people thought something might happen.

Uh, Larry Bird appears on the cover of Sports Illustrated in November of '77, his first, uh, Sports Illustrated cover.

It's an iconic cover.

Uh, almost 50 years later, people know this cover.

Uh, and, and they're ranked, uh, Indiana State is, in preseason polls, and they flame out.

They flame out.

How do you think a Larry Bird of today manages the storm of social media, of nonstop attention? Does Larry Bird have a chance to become Larry Bird under circumstances like today?

And I just would love to know, in your opinion, what are the comps to teams today?

So, you know, the 78-79 season, that's the miracle year, right? The year before was the year that people thought something might happen.

Larry Bird appears on the cover of Sports Illustrated in November of 77, his first Sports Illustrated cover.

It's an iconic cover of almost 50 years later.

People know this cover.

And they're ranked, Indiana State is, in preseason polls.

And they flame out.

How do you think a Larry Bird of today manages the storm of social media, of nonstop attention? Does Larry Bird have a chance to become Larry Bird under circumstances like today?

What makes him such a unique underdog? Is it the upbringing, where he was from, all the obstacles that he was fighting against internally with himself? What were some of the characteristics that made Larry Bird really an impossible underdog to turn out to be one of the greatest players we've ever seen play basketball?

Right.

I mean, you guys know the story and so do your listeners and viewers.

Obviously, Bird is from French Lick, Indiana.

That's a really small town.

And I urge everyone, look at it on the map.

There is no way to get to French Lick today in 2026.

Keith, are you surprised Indiana State was never able to parlay having Larry Bird into more success? That's a good question.

Do you believe he could ultimately now end up in the Hall of Fame?

Well, he absolutely could now, you know, because of the decision that was made yesterday by Commissioner Rob Manfred.

Rose's name will be taken up now by a small committee of voters that handled the cases of players who played long ago.

That discussion will happen almost certainly in 2027.

So, you know.

at least semantically, he could be elected and appear in the hall as early as 2028.

Now, will the committee ultimately vote in favor? This is the next question in the great Pete Rose saga.

Clearly, the debate is not going to end with the lifting of the ban.