And he said in this interview that although he is, you know, started to question a lot of the the reliability of the bible and the inerrancy of scripture obviously through his his work as a new testament scholar he was very clear that the reason he's not a christian the reason he doesn't believe in god is because of the issue of suffering so i just want as you think about that have you seen that in other friends or in people that you've known who have this this issue of suffering has has really shipwrecked their faith

Yeah, absolutely, Matt.

Over the years, 30-plus years of being a pastor, I've said again and again that the number one apologetic question, the number one question that Christians and non-Christians struggle with is, why would a loving God allow suffering? That's really the question of the ages.

And I think, again, what can happen is people don't want to experience suffering.

But if we're honest— The only way we will grow in the Christian life is through suffering.

That's true in the weight room.

That's true when we do cardio.

Why is that a dangerous thing to do?