How have they reacted to your research?

It's been, obviously there's a challenge with it.

Um, and we do this mostly, um, the groups that we reach out to are groups where it's mostly elite athletes.

Because what you have in the elite athlete is they wanna get back as soon as possible.

Now, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with RICE.

It will eventually get you better.

But when I, we do experiments in the lab where we actually can take little casts and we can put them on animals, and what we can do is in three days or seven days, I can have so much loss of collagen from the tendons and so much loss of force production from the muscle that it's gonna take me eight weeks to get back that same amount of strength within those systems.

Mm-hmm.

Whoa.

And it was just because everything was so loose that she could rotate her whole arm without, without changing the hand position.

Um, there's people...

Again, swan necking is a classic example.

When I f- I hold my fingers out, a lot of people, actually, their fingers go backwards a long way.

So, so these types of things are common.

The biggest health problem with this is that people, uh, because these connective tissues are really important for our blood vessels, um, the most common problem that happens with this is, is aortic aneurysms or aortic dissections.

Ah

And he told me that recently...

So I started getting a lot of emails from people asking me, "So I, you know, I inject BPC 157 into my tendons and, and they're feeling better.

Is, you know, this is a mar- magical thing." And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's really cool, so let's go test it."

And he told me that often it's pretty obvious if it's doing something.

If you wiggle it normally, you'll see it move a little bit.

If it's stronger, it'll stay nice and stiff.

If it's really weak, it'll flop around.

So you can see that these thing, these drugs or these treatments are really either having an effect on the tissue or they're not.

Yep

... complex one.

It's the mechanistic target of rapamycin.

So I'd been doing this.

I had a laboratory.

I was-- my first laboratory was in Scotland, and I was invited down by the English Institute of Sport to come to their cycling center, and they were like, "Okay, this is great.

We have these incredible athletes who are winning all kinds of gold medals, and we want them to get stronger." And so I go in there with my spiel about bigger muscles and all of this, and they're like, "Yeah, but we gotta carry that muscle mass." And I've got five years of data that shows me I'm getting these athletes stronger without making them any bigger, and in many cases, making them smaller.

When is it right to inhibit inflammation and when is it not?