So why not? So when you think about customer experience, what do companies do to understand how people actually experience brands? Like what work is being done to truly understand the customer to better serve them?

Well, I'll answer that in two parts.

So the first question you said, why not? I think fundamentally, customer experience, despite net promoter score, so NPS, that was born about 22, 23 years ago by Fred Reichfield.

And that was probably the time when customer experience really started to boom, when we started to take it seriously, where we had this measurement that all of a sudden could be pretty well benchmarked across companies.

But that's really new for a business function.

You know, HR, ops, marketing, these functions have been around for a long time.

It's like customer experience is like this little baby as far as a company function goes.

But how would you recommend or how do you talk about this with organizations? Because I think sometimes the gut reaction is I'll just get AI tools that will just do this for us and removing that human element to it.

Mm-hmm.

And you can spend, I mean, gosh, you know yourself, on proposals, you can spend weeks of time and effort, and despite being sensible about it, if it's an opportunity that you're excited about and passionate about, you get so built up for it, and if that doesn't come to fruition, I mean, that can just be, like, really devastating on a personal level.

Um, never mind on a financial level or on a security level.

On a personal level, it can be super challenging.

So even just the, the obvious challenges that we all face in business, like the challenges of learning how to run a business, you know, [laughs] the, the, the finance side of it, the marketing side of it, the every single ha- I mean, that's a challenge.

Um, but quite honestly, the, the biggest challenge that I faced, and I think, again, as, as women, as people, we have our, our personal challenges that we face, families that we run.

I, uh, had a 20-year relationship which broke down, like, two years into my business, and that was obviously devastating.

[laughs]