And again, we, we know she's under the influence pretty heavily.

So they went by things called triggering events, which is basically when you turn on the car, there's different triggering events.

And when you back up or do specific things that aren't necessarily in the normal, it will record this triggering event.

Another suspicious thing in this case is that from her car's data, all of the dates and the times associated with the triggering events were missing.

They were, quote, unquote, uh, destroyed while they were extracting the information.

So they don't-- they can't technically prove that this backup happened at that exact time and day.

This could have actually happened while the car was in the possession of the Massachusetts State Police, and they were doing testing.

Yeah.

Do you think their relationship was reported accurately by the media or was it sensationalized some?

I think it was pretty accurate.

I covered this trial day by day.

And in the trial, they went through almost every single text message between the two on the day before the murder.

I'm not a psychologist or therapist, but from my knowledge on relationship attachments, I think that Karen was... an anxious, maybe anxious avoidant attachment, and John was very much an avoidant.

So those are just definitely not two people who are good to be together.

And I think John was struggling from transitioning in a role from a fun uncle to an actual father who had to discipline these kids.

Just looking at the facts that are there, what seems to be the most plausible scenario?

[dramatic music] This is Crime House.

There's a difference between suspecting someone of a crime and proving it, and there's an even bigger gap between getting that evidence and actually getting them into a courtroom.

In May of 2022, investigators in Austin, Texas, were building a case against a suspect in the murder of 25-year-old cyclist Anna Moriah, or Mo, Wilson.

They had a vehicle placed at the scene.

They had bullets that matched the type of gun the suspect owned.

And the suspect made a key mistake.

The evidence was coming together.

I haven't seen it yet, no.

[suspenseful music] This is Crime House.

There's lots of different kinds of cycling.

They're all tough, but gravel racing can be especially brutal.

We're talking unpaved roads through farmland and forests, over mountain passes and creek beds, in conditions that can flip from scorching heat to freezing rain in a matter of hours.

Races stretch anywhere from 100 to 300 miles.

There's no support crew, no pit stops.

If your tire blows out 20 miles from the nearest gas station, you deal with it yourself or you're done.

Katie will introduce the next two episodes, then come back at the end of part two for an extended conversation about the case.

[suspenseful music] This is Crime House.

Going off to college is an exciting time in someone's life.

Most people never forget that first taste of freedom, planning your own schedule, going to parties, and choosing your own path.

For many, entering college marks the beginning of a bright new chapter, but for John Norman Collins, it was the beginning of his sadistic downfall.

When John started college in the late 1960s, he had everything going for him: friends, good grades, and a steamy dating life.

So when female students started turning up dead, no one suspected that John was the monster behind it all.

And for the next two episodes, Katie will introduce our subject, then stick around at the end of part two for an extended conversation about the case.

I can't wait to talk about this with you.

And just like last time, Katie will introduce today's episode, and be sure to stick around at the end as we sit down for an extended discussion on today's case.

Thanks, Vanessa.

Before we get started, please be advised that this episode contains discussion of explicit sexual violence against women and minors, so please listen with care.

Today, Vanessa and Dr. Engels conclude their deep dive into the mind of John Norman Collins, AKA the Ypsilanti River, a seemingly ordinary college student who became one of the most feared serial killers in Michigan history.

After suffering a troubled childhood, John used his wholesome all-American persona to get ahead.

And once he'd earned the trust of everyone around him, he used it to hide in plain sight while he hunted down innocent young women and girls.

As Vanessa goes through the story, Dr. Engels will be talking about things like why some violent offenders insert themselves into investigations, why they reveal information that could shed light on their guilt before they've been caught, and how past trauma can fester and serve as the driving force behind some killer's rage.

And as he grew more brazen, John embarked on his most depraved and vile act yet.