But also the horrors of the war and the mass exodus of European people it caused led to a re-evaluation of the law on a global scale.

One of the things that Julia Stone was interested in introducing to the University of Sydney was international law.

Today, we accept that it is an area of legal doctrine.

But at this time, a huge amount of energy had gone into producing parts of international law in response to the Second World War.

So international law was literally in formation and production in real time.

And Stone was interested in engaging with that, and not everyone else at the University of Sydney thought that it was a legitimate field of law.

But because the Second World War was producing international law, international legal institutions, And also international causes of action in response to the law, reparations, compensation, displaced people.

And so I have indeed achieved to a certain degree that which I wished for in my youth.

This country is at war, war as real as that in Europe

EuropeIn legal theory, there is this big debate or divide between, on the one hand, what's called legal positivism, and on the other hand, what's called natural law or natural law theory.

Legal positivism is the idea that law is made by human beings, and that whatever the law is, whatever the sovereign or the state or the people have determined should be the law, that is the law.

And whether it's fair or whether it's just or whether it delivers good outcomes, it doesn't matter, it's lawful.

We call that legal positivism.

And under natural law theory, when we're deciding what is the law, we have to look at what is ethical, what is moral, what is the underlying morality of what we're trying to achieve, not just what is the law on the books.

It's important to know that these theories and this debate between natural law and positivism is unfolding in the actual moment where it really affects people's lives.

Fulfilling the internees' requests often required patience, skill, and perseverance.

[somber music]

Camilla Wedgwood was born in England in 1901.

She comes from a storied family.

They're related to the Wedgwood potteries.

They're also related to the Darwins.

She's also related to the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams.

So she comes from this very kind of ruling class family that are cultured and intellectual.

This is a textbook case of bureaucratic violence where categories are used in order to police the boundaries of inclusion, even when it results in some quite stark injustices or inhumane consequences.

This country is at war, war as real as that in Europe.

In legal theory, there is this big debate or divide between, on the one hand, what's called legal positivism and, on the other hand, what's called natural law or natural law theory.

Legal positivism is the idea that law is made by human beings and that whatever the law is, whatever the sovereign or the state or the people have determined should be the law, that is the law And whether it's fair or whether it's just or whether it delivers good outcomes, it doesn't matter, it's lawful.

We call that legal positivism.

And under natural law theory, when we're deciding what is the law, we have to look at what is ethical, what is moral, what is the underlying morality of what we're trying to achieve, not just what is the law on the books.

It's important to know that these theories and this debate between natural law and positivism is unfolding in the actual moment where it really affects people's lives.

[inquisitive music] Fulfilling the internees' requests often required patience, skill, and perseverance.

They are corresponding with individuals who want to be rescued or want them to rescue one of their loved ones, but they are also doing a huge amount of correspondence that's necessitated by the bureaucracies of rescue and support, and also just the minutiae of these people's lives.