How did your understanding of leadership and influence evolve between those roles, and what did you learn about power and accountability that most architects never see?

Well, I think the city leadership Leadership just kind of a lot of people who are leaders at the city, if they're put in by the mayor, the mayor would would appoint different leadership.

So like deputy mayors and directors often and sometimes deputy directors as well.

They probably have a leadership background in other agencies that have come in.

My leadership came in as administrator at the Department of Business and Neighborhood Services or formerly code enforcement when I started there.

And, you know, I think that leadership structure is often kind of trial by fire.

A lot of a lot of people are kind of gaining their feet under them when they're becoming leaders in those roles.

Um, that's rough.