I looked on YouTube.

But that, by that point, that's what I'm saying, I had to get over the whole, like, tit thing, and then everyone just wanted my tits out, even though I didn't even like, I had such a phobia about them.

I was like, I mean, still, well, not actually still as much, but you know, like for a long time, uh, I would do shoots and I had no top on.

A long time.

And, um, yeah, and at Vivienne's show, and I think because they were, they were, I was kind of so flat-chested that it wasn't like vulgar.

They could kind of use me as like a, like, it, it wasn't, if I'd have had like amazing big tits, like Helena Christensen or something, and they put her in a corset with her tits out, it kind of would've changed the vibe.

Because I was so flat-chested and I had a big mole, it wasn't, it was different.

Like, I mean, it's not like you do think you have your, your very original full stop anyway, but it's like, and you're, you're so familiar with fashion, and is there a, like a place where you go against fashion, but it's part of your sort of way that you know you've got it right?

I was

living on my own and obviously the pandemic hit.

Oh, gosh.

And I just, for some reason said, I just want to learn to do fitness.

My sister was an athlete.

Sadly, she passed away when I was younger.

My brother was a footballer.

I used to

Mm-hmm.

You're, you're really good about, um, check-ins and then staff meeting.

I think in order to, again, going back to sort of the stress of working for a chaotic boss, if you know that, say, every Tuesday at noon-

Mm-hmm

... um, it gives you a chance to ask the questions, to receive some clarification on things so that you're not feeling so overwhelmed.

If you're not meeting consistently, it's going to stay in this kind of not-quite-sure-

And was that the Corin Day pictures?

Yeah.

And I was like 15 and I was topless in a magazine and I was still at school.

And luckily the face wasn't really sold in Croydon, so I don't think anyone really saw it.

But I was still, no, I mean, they did, they heard.

And it was kind of like, you know, they took the piss out of my brother and all that.

Your sister's got her tits out.

Do you and Lila still do fashion police?

He is always, always in my mind, not as a pleasure any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being.

So a ghost story, a social novel, a novel that investigates the society in which people were in, a novel about race, a novel about the relationship between different classes of people, a novel about money, about why women do marry and why men do marry.

But also, as you heard there, it's a novel about race.

what it means to be human, what it means to have a soul, what faith is.

It isn't the Christian faith that is shown in the novel through Joseph, or to a lesser degree, Nelly, who thinks that Catherine is too wicked to be in heaven, but it is the sense of the very great idea of nature, of the idea that we are part of the world, not separate from it.

It is quite astonishing to think of this woman writing a novel of this great pantheistic brilliance, if you like.

Her language is always infused with the sense of something more, something other.

If he shot me so, I'd expire with a blessing on my lips.