And maybe the scholarship was part of that, but ...

Yeah, I, I think the, the, the scholarship certainly brought lots of those things together and gave you real confidence with a, you know, off the back of a huge amount of, um, experience with lots of different people and, and exposure to different tools.

It's, it's ...

I don't think there's anything like it really.

Um, but I think the first time was actually I, I was, I was at a conference in, uh, in Athens, so it was when I was in, uh, global travel, and they brought, you know, everyone together and we were, it was, we were, we were driving disproportionate growth and, and a big part of that was this kind of breakthrough thinking, so working with a company called GAP International.

And there were lots of sessions in the plenary where, you know, the microphone gets handed around, and there was this session, and it's funny 'cause I can't actually remember what the question was, but I remember I put my hand up, and I took the microphone, and I stood up, and the person next to me on the table, 'cause we sat in circular tables, said, "What are you doing?" And then it was kind of too late and I was stood up, and I, I got the qu- I got the answer wrong, right? So, you know, that moment where you think, right, I've got this answer wrong in front of hundreds of people.

Um, you know, wanted the ground to swallow me up, and then he just kept going until I got the answer right.

Um, but how has your definition of success evolved from maybe those first days at Diageo to where you are now?