So who do you think are the key customers or users of that lending side of things? Is it institutions? Is it retail? What are they using that money for and all that?

Right now, it's a very funny barbell that happens.

So I just found this out yesterday.

The median deposit on Jupiter Lend is $260.

We have $2.6 billion in the protocol, right? So it's like the median is very small.

So it ends up being a barbell with a lot of small guys and then a few very large institutional players.

The small guys use it for all the same reasons you might want to.

How is it, is it impacting Jupyter in any way? What's your plan? How do you plan to?

Can you explain?

I think that this is where the industry is going to be going.

If you look at the actual kind of like economic value that is created by trading, there is plenty, right? Like you're actually contributing to the capital formation process, teams that need funding get it and so on.

Yield is the kind of thing that every single person wants, right? Like I talked to my cousin or whatever else they're probably not going to start trading tokens.

Maybe they'll buy and hold Bitcoin, and that's about as far as they go, and maybe a little bit of Joop, because they know me.

But if I tell them about interest rates that they can get, especially insured interest rates, that's something that's really interesting to everyone, from a grandmother to an 18-year-old kid who's fresh out of college and just starting to get some paychecks.

The total addressable market is basically everybody that has a savings account.

be an interesting business listen

So how does the lending product work, and who would you say it's meant for targeting, if anyone?

The latter question is easy to answer.

It's meant for everybody.

So Jupiter Lend is a permissionless protocol.

Anyone can participate.

We've had more than 100,000 users use it over the last nine or 10 months, which is, uh, pretty incredible.

Lending markets typically do not have so many users.

Yeah

And then what are some of the other products that are driving sort of profitability for Jupiter right now?

Yeah, we posted this kind of like long 30, 40 page 2025 year review, and we'll have one coming up for investors shortly as well.

So bear with me, I might get these numbers a little bit wrong off the top of my head.

But Perps is something like 50 to 55% of the overall business right now.

And that's for the obvious reason that Perps is a very lucrative product, as we all know.

It's limited to just three pairs right now because it uses the AMM model instead of the more normalized order book model that people tend to use these days.

The advantage of our model and the reason that we've had so much success with it despite only having the three pairs and despite having higher fees in many cases is guaranteed liquidity.

What else can you tell us about the state of Joop USD? Why should DeFi investors be looking at Joop USD? Anything that differentiates it?

I think it's going to be one of the biggest.

I think that there's really two blockers and how fast they get solved will, I think, influence the final answer here.

The two blockers right now are one is kind of like trust and understanding of what crypto is, right? Most people, you know, my mom or whoever else you tell about crypto, they mostly think of, you know, fart coin or whatever random kind of scams that are out there.

So there's still like a trust and education gap that needs to be done first, which I think Clarity will hopefully make big progress on because they'll see major institutions using crypto in new ways.

And then the second, quite honestly, something people aren't talking about enough is the on-ramp problem, right? If you want to on-ramp serious funds in without going through a centralized exchange, you're looking at 3%, 4% just to get on-chain.

And if you're able to get whatever, let's say 6% on your Tesla stock on-chain, but you're giving up 3% just to on-ramp and another 3% when you off-ramp, We haven't really created something much better, right? And so I think that those two problems both need to be solved, the kind of off-chain trust, and then how do you actually get on-chain in the first place in a relatively cost-effective way? I think that those problems probably get solved in the next kind of 12 to 18 months.

And that's really where things start to go more vertical.

Why do you feel that this was responsible for Jupe's performance over the last little bit?