[chuckles]

... um, deliberately sending out messages that are provocative, that will, again, push buttons on social media.

The thing about that video, aside from what you've pointed out about the stereotypes, was it, it was having these AI-generated characters who represented a particular stereotype pushing a message saying the stereotype should change.

Now, that is some sophisticated kind of political psychology in there.

You see a picture of an indigenous man in remote Australia, and he's saying, "We shouldn't get handouts.

We" -- You know, "People shouldn't be getting handouts." So it's reinforcing these stereotypical prejudices some people have, and I think that is a worry, and it hasn't had a lot of attention, you're right.

We are gonna see a lot more AI-generated material in our political discourse unless Something is done to stop it, and it won't just be, uh, One Nation.

Does that leave the centre open or is it risky for Albo to keep plodding along in that sensible centre space? Does he need to be seen as being more bold or is he on the right path in terms of where he sees the future of his government's political fortunes?

How much of a squeeze is the government in on this one, Karen?

Well, I'll make a disclosure here, Sally, because I'm freelancing and I'm a sole trader, and I have used credit cards to pay tax bills occasionally.

It's a cash flow thing.

If you've got other bills coming in, you're managing money.

I paid quarterly tax, so I was paying tax up front, and sometimes it was more convenient to use a credit card and then pay it off.

So I think it's a problem for them.

It's a consistency problem because they're asking small business to do one thing, but the tax office is doing something different.

Speaking of value for money, pre-cop in the Pacific, was that good value at $20 million?

She's not used to this kind of scrutiny, is she?

Yeah.

So I think at the beginning there you said she was forced to go to ground for a couple of days.

I would say she chose to go to ground for a couple of days, and I would say she did that because she is starting to get more scrutiny on things that she has said or says regularly than she has before.

Pauline Hanson has been able to sort of coast through politics, being the amplifier of grievance.

Now, that's a role.

People want someone who reflects how they feel, and she is the person that is be- has been doing that.

... law, right?

And so has becoming Prime Minister changed his popularity in the seat at a- at all? Because as PM, he's not just making decisions for the electorate, he's making decisions for the entire country.

Yes, and there always is when someone is elevated to the prime ministership, and it can kind of go in both directions.

So I think, uh, there's a section of the population in his electorate who would say they're really pleased that he is now the Prime Minister, and that can, um, increase your personal support in an electorate.

But then there's a cohort that might say, "Well, now that he's the Prime Minister, he's not paying as much attention to us and our seat," or "He's not d- doing what we thought he would do," or "He's not the same, uh, politician demonstrating the same values as he did when he was younger." And so there can be criticisms as well, and I think there's a little bit of both.

But when, if you look at Anthony Albanese's vote in that seat over the last few elections, it was strong when he first won it, then through the period of the instability of Labor leadership, the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years, his personal vote dropped, and I think that reflected the general chaos in the Labor Party.

But since he became Prime Minister, and really since he became Opposition Leader in 2019, his personal vote, his primary vote, has steadily increased.

So you would think that that is partly to do with the fact that he's now the Prime Minister, the leader of the country, and then there's a degree of sort of local pride in that.

Can it, can it be done, do you think?

not a drop in the ocean for these tech companies, Karen? Yeah.

Well, the legislation they tried to get passed in the last couple of weeks had a number of provisions in it about doubling penalties and also strengthening the power of the eSafety Commissioner to compel the production of documents from tech companies.

It was really, it was quite not a very long set of amendments and it was because the eSafety Commissioner had asked for these extra powers, which does make you wonder why they weren't provided in the first place, because this was sort of a fixing up of the law that they've already enacted.

But there was a bit of negotiation, I think, between the Coalition and the Greens on getting together to sort of team up on a couple of issues, this being one of them.

and they've sent this off to a parliamentary inquiry now to look at what else is missing.

So I think there is an argument that people have said, oh, this has already been gone over and it's already enacted, get on with it.

Yes, I think that's reasonable.

As you said, it seemed his political antenna seemed to have failed him at this stage.

Karen, how is Angus Taylor managing to steer the good ship Liberal Party, and the coalition that comes with it, through this period of Labor trying to press ahead with a lot of reforms?

I think he's been struggling to be seen to be out front as the leader, and I think on Tuesday in the party room, uh, you know, he sort of tried to read the riot act and say, "We need unity.

You've gotta pull together.

We can't be disunited.

We can't win government if we are." And there were ...

That was received in a number of different ways.

There's a cohort in the coalition party room that say, "Well, hang on a minute.

Mm

Um, was she more vigorously tested yesterday, and what did you make of the press gallery's performance?

Look, I think she faced a series of perfectly reasonable questions.

If anything, uh, people might have been mindful of the fact that if they are seen to be too aggressive in questioning her, it'll just add to this sense that there's a pile on and she's being bullied.

So people were very polite to her, thanked her for being there, because of course she hasn't been there for 30 years.

Uh, and were happy to have the opportunity to ask questions.

I think as we know more about her agenda, and bearing in mind we've, she's been a grievance politician, she's been a, a, a lightning rod for complaints about the system.

She hasn't been an advocate for change in a way that she might actually implement until now.

No, we're not, we're not doing stunts, all right?

So why is the Albanese government doing this now?

Well, it's, it's fascinating, Ruby, because you're right.

They said at the election emphatically, in fact, the Prime Minister was quite forceful with journalists who were asking him about this, that they were not going to make these changes, and they've, they've changed.

And they say that things have changed since the election, and I think circumstances have changed, but there's gonna be a question about whether people accept the reasoning and the argument in favor of breaking the promise.

You've got these kind of competing constituencies.

You've got the people who say, "We want the government to do something.

It's got a huge majority.

So is that an economic decision or a political one?

It's nothing new.

Yeah, I think the government senses not only that...

this is an opportunity for them to do it, but they actually have to do something now.

There's an expectation in the electorate that this government has got a huge majority, it's got a big mandate, and it needs to use it to do something to fix the system.

Because if you talk to people who take the temperature of the electorate regularly, who do focus groups, qualitative research, they say that people... are angry and believe the system is broken.

They don't believe that this cost of living crisis is temporary.

They feel like it's here to stay, which is diabolically bad for governments and for the Reserve Bank too, which has to monitor expectations.

There's complicated politics here with these women and also the fate of their children, those who have returned.

Doesn't it start to cross over into the government invading people's privacy, and how would something like that even work?

Well, it is certainly a- an invasion of privacy.

Uh, having said that, social media is public, so there's an implication with the way that the Trump system works that they're digging deeper than that.

Um, the problem here is what are they looking for? [laughs] What are the things in your social media that might deem you not eligible to come to Australia, either as a tourist or as a migrant? Any kind of prejudice could be allowed to run, which is exactly what this policy purports to be trying to stop, I guess.

Um, so it's very unclear how it would actually work.

It would also cost a huge amount of money, I expect, to have people going through every applicant's social media accounts in detail and then writing reports about them, and then someone making a decision about them, and then the process that is involved in all of that.

And I think if we look at the United States, this certainly from the outside looking in, there's a general impression that if you're someone who's been outspoken about Donald Trump and his government, and especially if you're someone with any kind of profile, then you, you, you'd have to think you're a good candidate to be screened out based on your social media.

Now what's he talking about?

What will his approach be to One Nation as a threat? And do you think he's better or worse placed to handle it than Littleproud?

Well, this is gonna be fascinating because now that we have Barnaby Joyce in One Nation, it, it's a head-to-head contest not only between Matt Canavan and Pauline Hanson, the leader of One Nation, and, and it's, it's also interesting that the Nats will now be led from the Senate, which is highly unusual and, and that's where Pauline Hanson also is.

But we've got the contest between Matt Canavan and Barnaby Joyce.

Now, Matt Canavan was a protege of Barnaby Joyce.

His first job in politics when he left the Productivity Commission, where he was a longtime economist, was working for Barnaby Joyce.

And, you know, they're good mates, and they share a lot of things in common, and Barnaby Joyce says that.

But I think there'll be, uh, some fascinating internal discussions because Matt Canavan has some very firm ideas.

Commissioner Brereton should ask himself whether him remaining in that position is good for the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

How did we get here and could you tell us what happened?

Well, how we got here is a long and winding road, Nicole.

This is the second breakup and the second reconciliation in nine months and we're supposed to believe that all is forgiven and everything is fine now.

It's happy families again and they'll be working for the Australian people and the Australian people can rely on that.

I think we might need a little more evidence in that, to be honest, after the ructions of the last nine months.

Where we got to, I guess, was we saw the most recent bust-up three weeks ago now when the government brought the new hate speech laws into the parliament.

The Nationals insisted there wasn't enough time.

So what does this development mean for her position? And does it keep the sharks from circling for now?

So did Lee make the right

call? Well, I don't think she had any choice, Nicole.

I mean, she couldn't go against what the coalition usually demands, and that is solidarity among the shadow ministry.

That is the rule.

If she hadn't required them to resign, she would look weak and that would destroy her leadership.

And her leadership may well be destroyed now anyway as a result of this.

But David Littlepowder was staring her down with that letter that emerged last night.

Coming up, what's actually in these laws? Karen, can you explain for us in some more detail how these new laws will work? Well, the focus of

So is this an admission of failure by the Prime Minister?

Well, it's a good question.

The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, doesn't like to admit failure or apologise or anything like that, broadly speaking, and he is certainly not admitting failure.

But you have to say that when an attack occurs that kills 15 people, then there has been a failure of government at every level and agencies to keep people safe, which is the fundamental job of all governments.

The question is whether that was a preventable failure or not.

And then there's been the debate about whether there's been a subsequent... political failure in the way the Prime Minister has chosen to respond in the three and a half weeks since.

There are certainly some critics, particularly in the opposition, who say it's taken far too long.

And finally, Karen, I guess the question that a lot of people are really concerned about at the moment is, what is the risk that this Royal Commission will actually deepen divisions further?