Fair, fair.

Right.

And, you know, and I laugh because I just I'm tired of being feeling the other emotions because I'm also feeling optimistic about what we're going to do to put some checks and balances on.

This administration that is his administration that is so corrupt and callous that is doing their work with such brutality.

You know, he has a skill for trying to make people laugh and play the comedian.

You know, he's either playing the comedian or like decorator in chief.

But the reality is what's coming out of that administration is causing a whole lot of pain in our country.

Do you think we should rebuild everything that's been torn down? And do you think we could rebuild

What are you saying now more directly that you feel like you weren't able to say then?

I mean, look, one of the things I've been talking about is, um, you know, there's this Supreme Court decision that came down, um, it's called the Calais decision, which basically gutted, killed the Voting Rights Act, which was designed to protect people's rights to have access to the ballot and to vote.

And since that decision, you've seen, and particularly in the South, uh, all these states that are, are basically depriving people of their ability to have representation.

Um, it, it is estimated that, for example, you know, the Congressional Black Caucus, that as many as one-third of them are gonna lose their seats because of what has just happened, and which means not only certain office holders are gonna lose their seat, but the voices they represent are gonna lose their voice, right, in, in Congress.

So my work has been about saying, "We gotta, we gotta fight for these issues, and we have to call it what it is." So part of what I've been talking about is that that decision, basically they said, "Well, you know, it's politics.

It's okay if they redistrict Around race, because it's just politics.

No, and so what I've been saying, 'cause it is what I absolutely believe, no, they have back-doored racism through the door of politics, and we have to call it what it is.

[sighs]

Sometimes that makes me wonder, like, what did you know that we didn't know? Like, did you know we were in trouble then? What don't we really understand about what's happening with AI right now?

I did know.

And I mean, I studied it.

I presented what I believe should be and was the perspective of the United States on the global issue of safety in AI.

I presented what I believe needs to be the spirit with which it is developed, which is that AI must be developed in the public interest.

That is a term that I used and apply to it.

I talked then, this was two and a half years ago in the United Kingdom, I talked about the fact that there needs to be moral and ethical rules that are attached to to how the work is being done.

Indeed.

They were really right.

So, you know, sometimes they get really, you know, into the march and kind of leaning over one way or the other.

um but it was just it was present i mean it was um music as an expression of the movement was present right i mean there is a place that we used to go it's on the border between berkeley and oakland it was called the rainbow club and it was where like all these artists would come and and and poets and and intellectuals would talk about the importance of freedom and talk about these things.

And we would, as kids, go with our parents.

And it was just everywhere.

It was all around.

And by extension, there were lawyers, especially those who were active in civil rights, who were a part of just the environment.

pulled me back in.

Yeah.

And we have to work on the relationships of trust and also understand that the nature of the relationship of trust is that it's reciprocal.

You give and you receive trust.

And I think that's some of the deep and important work that we all have to do.

Yeah.

for populations of people, and I'll speak for the American people, to have a healthy level of skepticism about whether the government is working in a way that works for them, the people, to be frustrated with the bureaucracy of government, with the politics.

That's not new.

But I do think that in particular, since the pandemic, we've seen it increase at a pretty significant level.

[laughs]

A beautiful slice of home-baked bread that was toasted just to perfection with burrata, just a nice slice that was melting and just kind of, just, just being.

Mm-hmm

... and I would make scrambled eggs, and I'd make it into a, a circle on a plate, and then I would cut Monterey Jack or cheddar cheese to make a smiley face melted on top of the scramble.

[laughs]

the challenge of it, but you are still believing that there's something we can do.

Well, to your point, uh, most recently last week I was in Louisiana, and, uh, and Louisiana, of course, is ground zero on the Calais decision, which now has, um, been probably the final and fatal blow to the Voting Rights Act.

And the case, of course, as you know, is Louisiana v. Calais, and, um, and what they've been doing in Louisiana as, um, they've been doing in many other Southern states, to your point, is redrawing the lines and essentially cheating.

But what I, I found in Louisiana most recently and in many of these Southern states where I've been spending time is, one, it is not a n- new experience in the history of, in particular, Black folks in, in those states, as you have pointed out.

And so there is some level of muscle memory about the fight, the, uh, the, the, the obstacles that will intentionally be thrown in people's way, um, and, and the need to fight against those obstacles and jump around those obstacles.

And so, for example, the Louisiana Democratic Party has been doing this whole ground operation.

They went to like, I don't know, I think it was like 23 cities in a s- in a s- s- defined number of days to start working on the grassroots, you know, neighbor-to-neighbor approach to remind people of not only the significance of their right to vote, but how people are trying to take it away from them.

[laughs]

I'm gonna ask you then, and this is a perfect moment, are you going to run for president in 2028?

I, I have not decided, to be honest with you.

But, um, I've been spending a lot of time traveling the country, as we talked about earlier, and listening to folks.

And, um, you know, I, I think that, that people want a leader who is willing to take risks, um, as opposed to just doing what is popular.

Um, I think people want to know that they are being seen and heard and that, you know, that, that their leaders, whether they're at a local, state, federal level or, or in the White House, are looking first at the people.

You know, not looking at themselves in the mirror.

[laughs]

Mm-hmm

Yeah

... using the...

And, and, and Don, you know, I, I say this, I, I led the second-largest department of justice in America, the California Department of Justice.

Using the Department of Justice as though it is his personal law firm, and by the way, putting in place to head that Department of Justice, which is the America's Department of Justice, and putting in pl- in, to head the, the Department of Justice, his personal lawyers.

He...

And he is treating, uh, uh, the institutions that were designed to support and help the American people as though they were designed to help and support Donald Trump's personal interests.

He is using these agencies to, to implement s- self-indulgence on his part.

Mm-hmm.

Mm

... as a point of, of, of discussion for potential action.

And but it also in- the work that we have before us, Don, also includes Addressing why so many people who have everything at stake are not voting.

And because when you talk about it being a minority of people who may be responsible for the things that are happening that are contrary to our democracy, um, I don't disagree with that, but a, a, a parallel point has to be for all of us, how are we going to better engage a larger group of people to be active participants in our democracy? And I, and I truly believe that one of the challenges that we have is that we are not openly and honestly talking about the fact status quo has not been working for a lot of people for a long time.

You know, we can talk endlessly, and certainly I can, about the failings, the corruption, the incompetence, the callous nature of the current presidential administration.

But the truth also remains that even though things may get worse before they get better, it will at some point, that term will end, and there's gonna be a whole lot of debris at the end of this.

And it will be a mistake for folks to just talk about how will we rebuild if they do it with any level of nostalgia about how things were before.

Mm-hmm.

Is that something that you believe Congress should do?

Absolutely not.

So let's, let's break this down on voting rights.

First of all, we know that we've been seeing a pattern over decades of a, a, a, an explicit attempt to destroy and gut the Voting Rights Act, and that already has started to take form, including that his Supreme Court, the majority that, uh, he, you know, and he purposely selected people in, on the court that would destroy the Voting Rights Act, and they're about to, uh, decide on Section Two of the Voting Rights Act, which is the remaining piece that would allow people to sue if there is evidence of racial discrimination in the way that the lines are being drawn.

[phone dings] The Supreme Court is about to get rid of Section Two of the Voting Rights Act.

You look at what they did to initiate an attack on redistricting, right? Mid-decade.

Supposed to happen every decade around the census.

Do you believe, based on what you know, that war in Iran would be justified?

Mm-hmm.

And, um, but, but we needed more time.

I mean, running for President of the United States means, um, y- you have to earn the vote, and I was keenly and fully aware of that.

You can't assume that anyone is going to vote for you.

You got to earn the vote.

And that was...

As you read the book, you will see perhaps the tension in the, the, the short time we had to talk with as many people as possible.

Mm-hmm.

Do you think about it? Maybe you don't think about it.

No, I mean, it, that, and you're, I write about it in the book.

We had 107 days, and I was acutely aware of the stakes.

And i- at the end of every day, each of those 107 days, my prayer included asking God that I, i- uh, and prayed that I did everything that day I could possibly do.

I knew how high the stakes were.

And one of the, actually the most difficult chapter that I wrote in the book was about election night.

And I will tell you, when I learned of the result of the election that night, I felt an emotion I have not felt since my mother died.

Yeah.

Was there a change in the approach at a certain point in there where the, "This is weird" stuff got away from, and there was a different approach? Or was that an incorrect perception from the outside?

Well, we had many messages, right? So you're talking about when Tim would talk about...

Yeah, I...

The...

The message from the beginning was about the people and what we need to do to make life more doable, which included, in particular, what we need to do around affordability.

And that was a through-theme for the campaign and it was also about the contrast, obviously.

So some of the first speeches that I gave without the benefit of any polling or any real infrastructure, um, were about also the contrast around just, you know, "I know his type," talking about Donald Trump.

Immigration, crime, and some of the feeling as to how the state of the economy was.

Talk about how she is fueling hope right now.

I, I have nothing but profound praise.

You know, when, um, when I talked with her during the process and interviewed her, one of the things among many that, uh, uh, I was just incredibly excited and, uh, and about, about her talent and her skill and her gift, is she has that extraordinary ability to deconstruct-... something that feels and often is complicated, complex, and nuanced, and just break it down.

And she is so smart and well-informed, and obviously, e- e- extraordinary education and, and a student and a... y- that she, when she speaks, it is with a level of authority, strength, and gravitas that history will read her words and understand how we all hoped to articulate this moment.

(applause) And I encourage everyone, when you get a chance, to just pull any one of her dissents.

Yeah.

She just breaks it down, and she does it in a way that, you know, I pray for her, because I will tell you, like so many here, whether in our personal or professional lives, um, this is a difficult time to speak up when, in particular, you are in an environment that you know is not welcoming of difficult conversation, much less an environment that is, um, at the very least in disagreement with you.

Whoo.

Mm-hmm.

...

the, the challenge is not just so-called educating the voter, but actually, first, being aware of whatever it is that they've been hearing, and then figuring out how you are going to have that conversation to challenge the assumptions that people are coming with.

Um, and, and I say that to everybody.

I, I, I was, been talking recently, uh, during the book tour about, you know, the assumptions that we are making about the people who voted differently than us, and we shou- we should challenge some of those assumptions, meaning that we have, we have assumed that s- someone who votes differently than us may have a different set of morals or values or, or, or principles that are important to them.

But let's first step back and ask the question, are we working with the same information? Right? A fa- And I, and I purposely say information because fact is fact.

Two plus two is four.

Right.

the pain in your face.

Oh, it's awful.It's awful.

You look at what's happening, it's, I mean, uh, it, it's awful what's- Uh, right now, the man is building a ballroom for a bunch of his rich friends while millions and millions of people are about to lose their health coverage, in terms of them being able to afford premiums for their healthcare.

You look at the weaponization of the Department of Justice against political enemies, how titans of industry are so afraid.

Uh, that the capitulation that we're seeing across the board, whether it be universities, law firms, media companies.

Uh, what's happening around gutting the Department of Education, l- lunch programs for, for, for low income children.

I, E, D, uh, uh, uh, IEPs, individual education plans, for, for, t- special needs kids.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

... of reflection and, um, you know...

I mean, even the day after the election.

So we had planned that on election night we would be giving a victory speech at my alma mater at Howard University and- [audience cheering] You know.

And [laughing]- And, um, and of course that was not to be.

And so we, we asked people that night to come back the following day, and I went back the following day to give a speech.

That was my concession speech.

[laughs] Yeah.

"... that our generation doesn't just defend that promise, but strengthens it?"

Hmm.

All right.

So I think everyone saw, and if not, I'd invite everyone over the weekend if you have some time to take a look at those arguments before the Supreme Court this week.

They're trying to wholesale get rid of the Voting Rights Act.

And I have to say to you as a young leader that part of your legacy being here in Birmingham is that it is young leaders who imagined and dreamed that you would be here right now that are the, from this region and from this place, that are the reason that we got the Voting Rights Act in the first place.

[audience clapping] [audience cheering] And it is part of your legacy to fight to maintain as best as we can those protections.

[laughing]

But when you look at it, what were the trends that did that?

So I'm going to put the tech, we can talk about that next.

Well, because also I, I think their motivations are just extremely different.

Um, then if you will, the average Trump voter, I do believe that a significant number of people voted for the current president because they believed him when he said he would bring down prices on day one.

And he didn't.

And he lied to them.

And so the price of groceries is up, inflation is up, unemployment is up.

So what do you need from them? What does America need from them? What does leadership need to look like right now? And how can people running the world's largest businesses help?

(laughs)

He's here with his father, who is a former member of our administration.

And I said to him...

He said that he grew up as a high school senior really only being aware of a Trump as president.

But the- the three and a half months of our campaign, the 107 days, gave him a sense of hope, and- and it inspired him in a way that he had not been before about what could happen through our government for our country.

And here's what I would say to him and to all of us.

One of the reasons I wrote this book is to hopefully remind us of how thou- those 107 days felt, to remind us of the sense of optimism, possibility, and dare I say, joy, that we feel that everyone brought to it.

(laughing)

How should we be thinking about this in a rational way? What, what should the digestion look like?

I think we have to...

You're right in terms of perspective is very important, right? And so perspective hopefully is almost always influenced by, at least beginning, um, the influence is by fact, what happened.

And what we have seen is the weight of the federal government as dictated by the President of the United States and members of his administration bearing down to silence the voice of a critic, of a citizen who deigned to criticize their government, which is normal in a healthy democracy.

You go back through the history of time in democracies, political satire is a beautiful component-

Mm-hmm.

Dare I say the joy that people had about what is possible for our country.

You know going back to your, your point Taylor about where are we today? Yeah.

Um, why did you not predict the capitulation? And, um, what do you make of the effort to try to put some steel in the spine of those institutions?

So as you know, I- I am a lifelong public servant.

And, um, but I've worked closely with the private sector over many years, and I always believed that if push came to shove, those titans of industry would be guardrails for our democracy, for the importance of sustaining democratic institutions.

And one by one by one, they have been silent.

They have been, you know, yes, I use the word feckless.

Uh, they're...

It's not like they're gonna lose their yacht or their house in the Hamptons.

What is your reaction to those things? What do you think the appropriate response is to things like that?

Let's talk about her.

You mean even though she's sitting right here and you should be asking me about my stuff? Kind of awkward, isn't he? Very.

Now, If Hillary ran again, would you support her?

I'd support whoever wins the primary.

But if she runs, I'll bring popcorn.

Good girl.