So when you even have some of the top experts in the world ignore the genetic component, I think it does a lot of damage to survivors.

I agree, and I think, like, this is-- it all gets very contentious, but I, uh, I find it fascinating.

So if, um, there are, there are a handful of wonderful books on this.

Um, the, the history of medicine is filled with examples of doctors, physicians being very, very confident that they know what treatments work, what don't, what causes this, what doesn't.

And in the, the 20th century, so throughout the mid 1900s when clinical science, clinical trials, actually doing experiments and using controls and placebos came about, a very, very large number of people were proved very, very wrong [chuckles] because the hard truth is, if you follow your intuition, psychologists, if anyone, should know that humans are just-- we are pattern-seeking creatures.

We want to explain things.

And so when you see an outcome and you think you see a pattern, it is so easy to say, "This must be causing that." And there is just a never-ending list of false correlations, correlations that are not causation.

What traits do you think tend to be more stable over time?